*OFFICIAL* Alienware 15 R4 Owner's Lounge

I think I can spot an issue with this assembly compared to the MSI photos above and compared to my two Clevos which also use separate heatsinks for CPU and GPU.

Those copper heatpipes surely have some flex but there are three of them and as you can see the two copper plates are close to each other, I wonder how much flex there exists between those two copper plates to allow them to be deposited on the two CPUs perfectly, if, or when, the CPUs are not perfectly level ?

 

Does anyone know if the processor and GPU is upgrade-able or is it soldered to the mother board?

set-up:
M17R4
i7 8750H
1070 8gb
16gb RAM
128gb SSD NVM SATA + 1TB 7200rpm

 

Alienware aka Dell prefer BGA. Everything soldered on the MB!!

 

I meant M15R4 not a 17, im sorry. And if it is soldered on then if anything goes bad with GPU or processor, wouldnt that mean a whole new motherboard plus all your hardware?

 

All Alieware models after 2013/14 use soldered hardware. Yeah, you will need new MB if either cpu or gpu goes bad. BGA is a awful design.

 

Thats crazy, so lets say something as simple as a resistor or the like goes out on the MB, cost $5.00 to get but if u have the i7 8750H and 1070 8GB OC GPU, i will end up spending over $1000 cause i would have to replace those too? Am i understanding this correctly?

 

Apple laptops have even the RAM DIMMs soldered on! The thinner it is (eg Apple Macbook or iPhone or any other phone) the less space there is to allow for socketed ICs.

 

You replace the board with the right bits on you don’t need to add anything else to it. All you got to worry about is cost. It’s not likely to ruin unless your trying mod it. LM gone wrong or you spilled something on it.


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Pretty much ALL laptops EXCEPT Clevo high end plastic bricks and a few exceptions here and there are BGA machines, If your budget is down to earth then your only option is BGA machine or the one MSI/eurocom/hid tornado 15".

 

What is BGA? And the reason im asking is just for curiosity.

 

Ball grid array (BGA) The hardware is soldered on MB, like in a smartphone. If one of the components fail you will have to replace the whole motherboard.

 

But in general BGA hardware doesnt have a high failure rate. I mean PCH controllers and other components are all soldered. I never came across even one failing CPU, GPU's however abotu 10 years back ofcourse I did see those but recently? Havent seen one yet. Bios chips though......i did see those fail in some cases where they where placed too close to actual hot components while they are made to sustain high temperatures.

Its mostly not the solder balls that are soldered onto the PCB itself that are failing in BGA packages but the connection between the substrate and chip die itself. To protect BGA packages there are a few things in place now. A metal bracket on the back of the PCB to prevent warping of the PCB underneath the substrate and solder with the same expansion properties as the substrate. In the past the substrate sometimes expanded due to thermal load at a different rate than the solder which cause the solder balls to crack.

 

Basically surface mounted chips. Cpu and gpu soldered onto system board. No more sockets for upgrading. Some laptops have soldered cpu but MXM gpu. The majority now are all soldered solutions except a few.

lol oops, late to the party.

 

I expect not much have changed the last years. 1 in 3 Laptops fail over 3 years: With everything soldered on MB, you have a much bigger chance for massive failure. There is No doubt about that. And it won't make it better if the hardware have to run hotter than it have to be. Flawed heatsink design will shrink the the estimated lifespan.

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Nearly 1 in 3 Laptops fail over 3 years
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Yeah I saw the studies but a lot of those models are budget laptops and they also count for example harddisk failures.

But if an MXM board fails, its even more expensive than a full motherboard for an alienware for example (they cost around 500~600 euro on parts people-people.com and cheaper on aliexpress). In the end it is jsut enormously expensive to repair a laptop if one of the PCB's fail, the other parts not so much.

 

It's a damn mess obtain correct MB with what you want or have. It's a huge lottery (new or used). And maybe 5% of the owners is able to fix it by themself (full teardown of the notebook). I won't hope for a replacement MB below $1000 usd. Then add the work on top. Here home maybe add +$400. + shipping.

I can replace either the Cpu or GPU within 20-30 min if everything is socketed.

 

Wow, thats awful, I cant believe they would "intentionally" stop the "owner" of a device, (in this case compute)r, from being able to upgrade. repair, or replace parts without having to get everything all over. I just find that foolish but as we all know its all about the money right? So i have a GTX 1070 8GB gpu, i78750H processor., and a sandisk SSD drive, now lets say everything works fine except but i have to replace, ummm idk, lets say the chipset on the motherboard, basically i need a new motherboard, no problem, get those easily, but wait now i have to buy another gpu and processor and spend over $1000, not adding anything else that is soldered. Honestly i have a brand new M15 R4 and it runs beautifully, i love it to death, everything about it, i now want to sell it or return it and get my money back just because of this and obviously i was not aware of this FLAW!! But now im really bothered knowing i haven at the moment one of the best laptops money can buy, but yet i cant do sh** with it this time next year so to speak,I wonder why they dont give us a little freeway to replace, mod, or repair at least the 2 most expensive items on a motherboard. So is this why i cant overclock with any apps or software for this particular computer? Again I hope im understanding this right, lol im just mind boggled by this.

 

No, if you gpu breaks down you have to get a new motherboard which houses the gpu but also the cpu. But if your gpu breaks down on an mxm board you can swap the mxm bosrd only. The thing is an mxm gpu costs a lot as well even surpassing most motherboard replacements. If you cpu breals down its cheaper to replace than a soldered cpu ofcourse. But can you remember when you a cpu break down? I cant in my 25 years of using pc's.

 

I built my 1st computer from scratch in 2008ish maybe a little older, heck i had to buy an AGP graphics card for it lol, but that was the in thing at the time until PCI-e was making a name, (actually now i think it was about 2005), but i put top of the line processor, radeon AGP graphics card and a bunch of other stuff, but i did it for less than $1200 and again it was top of the lineparts i put in, wish i still had my benchmarks from it. I did not trey to build my own this time cause its been years since i have kept up or even tried to build one, but i said hey let me get something decent that i like and ill just upgrade it as time goes on, too bad for me finding this out too late, but my motherboard at the time was like $80 but you say they are now around (MXM) $1000? i really have missed alot.

 

Yes I believe understand, before if something broke down let's say my GPU all I needed to do was get a GPU and replace it or I just get a new CPU and replace it of the GPU breaks down. But now from what i understand they soldered everything to the board so basically if one breaks down for example of my GPU breaks down I have to buy brand new motherboard and processor and GPU and so forth.

 

Damn, I was about to order this maxed out as my first high end gaming laptop. However, all of these problems with the temps and throttling have me thinking twice. Should I wait? And has anyone tested something like Thermal Grizzly already?

Perhaps there are better similarly equipped options that look decent

Any advice would be appreciated..

 

No, your not following. If you replace the motherboard you get the gpu and cpu at no extra cost.
From what we are reading. Your saying if it breaks you gotta buy the motherboard and THEN buy a cpu and gpu.
It’s one cost gets all.


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Its true that replacing a motherboard requires some experience but thats for an MXM board the same imo. I saw brand new boards on aliexpress which are priced pretty nice and with free shipping, import taxes might apply ofcourse, 25% + ?? in Scandinavia?

MXM boards are laptop specific, they are a bit rare so thats probably one of the main reasons why they are so expensive.

This is an MXM 1080GTX for example https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-MS16L1...233515?hash=item1c8576b4ab:g:HZUAAOSwK6RZGfg9

 

Just wait a little bit, with the previous generation the heatsink did improve after a couple of months. In general the current and last gen laptops do tends to run more hot than the previous gens.

 

I would wait until the GPU refresh later this year if you can.

 

Do you think it'll have a big impact om thermals? Because if it's mainly about the extra power, the 1080 MAX-Q is more than enough for me.

 

BGA is not less reliable that LGA and millions of smartphones, laptops, consoles and other electronic gadgets, including desktop and laptop motherboards are packed with SMDs (components soldered on the surface of the board). The *only* components sometimes not surface mounted are the CPU and maybe the GPU on the graphics card. If there was a reliability problem it would have hit millions if not billions of people. As others mentioned above there have been issues with BGAs eg on the XBOX where thermal tension and shocks would snap some connections but at the same time there are billions of devices that work absolutely fine in disgusting conditions until they become obsolete and then you throw them out anyway.

http://www.circuitinsight.com/pdf/board_level_reliability_comparison_smta.pdf

Realistically if your laptop motherboard dies be that the CPU or the PCH, or in the case of Apple for example your DRAM, then you'd be looking to claim on the warranty. If your board dies outside the warranty period, well that's a risk but then again by the time the warranty expires ( 2 years in EU, 3 years in cases ) the mboard will be like "old" and not worth as much.

Having a multi-thousand pound laptop or desktop, I would not be banking on LGA to keep me safe outside of the warranty period, that would be sheer madness.

 

I'm quite sure a hell lot more people are able to open up the bottom lid to replace a graphics card or Cpu if needed. A totally different task than dismantle a whole notebook with +50 screws, + all types ribbon cables, wifi, screen etc.

Replace Cpu or Gpu is 20 min job. And you can almost do it in blind Even a Noobie should manage this within a reasonable time.


Yeah, you need to add 25% taxes on top of everything. At least here home.

 

no it didnt. the only improvement they made is to swap out the 0.5mm thermal pad to a 0.1mm thermal pad. every revision of the heatsink is the same. same cpu core differential problem, doesnt matter sunon of cci.

 

Is that a Clevo? Is that the CPU on the top right? It appears to have its independent heatisink and fan, it appears it's a 5 min job to repaste that, like on my Clevos. But on the other side it looks more complicated.

 

Again and I have said this multiple times you have no base to make such a grand statement on, only forum posts, forums tend to attract people with issues or else they have no reason to ask advice. Manufacturing tolerances and consistency did change. But what people tend to forgt is that motherboards also have different revisions and having an old board with a new heatsink still can cause issues if for eamples the mosfets are a tad higher or lower than what the heatsink was designed for. Something I experienced myself with the AW15R2 I always had a core temp differential on that model which was unsolvable until I had the right heatsink and motherboard combination. Something I only had once.

Also dont come with "you have a HQ CPU" 7820HK CPU's tend to be better binned and in the 17inch version you get a slightly larger heatsink and better fans. All laptops that I touched where fixable with the right thermal pads if needed and good paste. On mine I didnt touch the thermal pads yet.

 

I wouldnt net an inexperienced person swap it out as well. Its easier than swapping a motherboard but if you can swap the MXM board in that system you can swap the motherboard. WHich is easier to replace than how it is mounted in that behemoth

 

your experience is irrelevant. you are the only one in the entire forum claiming they have improved the heatsink to a point where temperature difference is no longer a problem. then again, you are right about one thing. you have a HQ CPU which is nothing when compared to a HK CPU. if the heatsink wasn't a problem to begin with, why would dell increased the strength of the tension arm for the CPU side? think about it.

your findings are based on your own whimpy HQ cpu laptop and not reflected by the entire forum community. and please do not disregard the voice of the community, even you are lurking around the forum for a reason. even though u claimed to have repasted other laptops, those are just baseless claims.

my findings are based on the many heatsink i've tested, from old to the latest revision, and i gather information from others before posting and sharing it with the community here. if you havent read or seen it, please use the search function to find it. that's a far stronger base than your baseless claims.

 

You claim to have tested many heatsink yet you havent posted any photo of aaaaaaall those heatsinks (what was it again you owned 20 of those?), you also have not measured the exact dimension to see how the tolerances are now, you havent measured the height of the various components on the board and compared those with older revision boards, hell apart from that a heatsink might look the same, ever considered they might have used a strong metal alloy for those tension arms? All are variable and you (and me as well because i didnt run into any issues) have checked all those factors which DO matter. You accuse me of making baseless claims, but you havent brought any proof to the table as well apart from a chat with the channel ownordisown about the thermal pads underneath the heatpipes (which I cannot verify myself because on the 15inch models there are no thermal pads underneath the heatpipes).

Why I am on this forum? I started here when I had issues with other laptops in the past and also had some questions regarding the custom bioses for the Vaio Z13 waaaaay back in the days.

Also iUnlcok already have shown many times the issues can be rectified and did bring proof to the table, but everyone know here by now do have some beef with him. There our thousands of units sold and I will agree with you that too many do have thermal issues from what I see on forums but you can never claim all units have this problem. That would be class action lawsuit material.

 

Well, having bought new laptops yearly for quite some time there are things we just know about Dell, and that is that their QC is abysmal and that they usually have problems with thermals/cooling. On the plus side, we also know that Dell usually have great customer service and quite ofte then best screens/panels in the business. The same goes for other manufacturers that have their pros and cons that show up regulary.

 

Yeah it can be a hit or miss with dell when it comes to QC. The best made laptop housings imo but they can ruin it by poor assembly. But if you receive a good unit, in general it will last long then.Saw some after service numbers from last year and Dell was rated pretty high. But cant remember where I saw those.Could be wccftech.com.

 

He is just not to be taken seriously, he claimed his Alenware laptop had 60C max temp on cpu while stressed...he is Dell sheep 100%

 

oh ok so it come with the motherboard, i gothcha, i thought you had to replace every single part and pay for every part again

 

No no. You get everything. Our complaint was when things was socketed. If the cpu or gpu failed (or the board) you could replace it and it’d be cheaper. Plus you could upgrade just that part without the need to spend loads on a new laptop.
But it’s ok now. You get everything. It’l just comes at a bigger cos but everything will work.


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Did you have Diff. core temps on 15 r2 with skylake? I thought Haswell did have that but it was quite minimal <5C. A remedy on Hotwell was Liq. Metal.

 

Yeah with my first heatsink 9c, FCN heatsink, second heatsink from CCI that the guys from Alienware shipped to me it was just 4c. Butremember when my AlienFX acted funky after the windows update/playing mafia3? They swapped my motherboard because of that and my core differential went back to 10c. Repadding, repasting etc nothing helped. I could see it that it was not sitting flush. The GPU components pushed my heatsing slightly up. Thats what happens when motherboards and heatsinks from different batches start to mix I guess.

 

Hi,

I recently got my 15R4 with an 8750H, I already repasted it since I didn't like the temps. Unfortunately they didn't get better I think. What do you think?
This is a short play if pubg, 1080p ultra, no frame capping:

https://imgur.com/a/kQc3CbQ

 

This is what I have suspected and said all along. The CPU and GPU could well require different levels / heights because not all ICs are the same thickness or soldered to the exact same height, but the heatisnk has the CPU and GPU plates bonded together and I presume very inflexible so any small differences in level between CPU and GPU would cause one or the other to be fitted improperly! Yopu could try to overcome the differences by increasing the torque on the mounting screws but if it sits crooked there is nothing you can do.

I think I would take a saw to the heatpipes and would disconnect the CPU from the GPU if not sitting properly?

 

I had this also. I had to take thermal pads off, and make sure by twisting (all axis) and fitting heat-sink that I have proper contact with GPU and CPU dye while fitted unscrewed (no 'click sound' tapping on heatsink above CPU and GPU).. After that re-padding with soft and compressible pads with high Wm/k (Gelids work perfect). I replaced all GPU (not following default measures) pads from 0.5 mm to 1 mm, because stock 0.5 mm pads were making no contact.

 

Awful results. This is no go!!

 

1mm is huge and so is 0.5mm. Mica insulator pads are 0.05mm-0.1mm thick, and on occasion I have sandwiched 3 together (to stop capacitive voltages) but 0.5 or 1mm is ridiculous? If that was a transistor mounted on a heatsink, either it would have no insulator at all, therefore much less than 0.05mm gap, or it would have a mica insulator with precisely 0.05mm to 0.1mm...

 

Terrible isn't it?? lol

Well, luckily on my laptop 13 R3 GPU, when (default Dell pad measurement) 0.5 mm pads made no contact with heat-sink after being placed on chips, and 1 mm pads compressed to 0.7 mm easy I was lucky. On the processor side stock 0.1 mm pads were causing core differences of over 15C, and after using 0.5 mm Gelids >>>>'puff'<<<<< 0 core differences on all 2018 cores lol. The answer for me SOFT PADS that adjust.

On the picture are default thickesses, but on my laptop I replaced 0.5mm (blue cyrcle) to 1mm (luckily lol)

 

I do not understand this photo The pads are gel not hard so they get compressed with screwing down the heatsinks. But what are all the other pads in X and O ? Are there for other ICs? I do not understand all those pads...

 

Hey guys, new to the forum, just wanted to post my temps. After playing Battlefield 1 for about an hour, and undervolting by 150mV, my temps while gaming were about 88-92 degrees Celsius. The cpu never went below 3.9 ghz. Comparing this to other 15 inch laptops with the i7 8750h, it dosen't seem too bad, especially considering it didn't throttle like others (which go down to like 3.1-3.3 ghz). If I cap at 3.5ghz, the temperatures stay under 85. Overall, I'm not impressed, but it doesn't seem too bad.

*Without undervolting, temps were around 95-96 degrees Celcius at 3.9 ghz. Surprisingly it was not throttling, but still those temps were way too hot. Also, the fans seem to be quieter than the r3.
*Ok just undervolted by 200mV and temps are even better, now temps are 80ish and under when all cores are at 3.5ghz and playing Bf1

 

Actually they even were better than stock, but still not nice:/ device will be sent back, I spent hours with testing and undervolting, enough is enough:/