The Notebook Review forums were hosted by TechTarget, who shut down them down on January 31, 2022. This static read-only archive was pulled by NBR forum users between January 20 and January 31, 2022, in an effort to make sure that the valuable technical information that had been posted on the forums is preserved. For current discussions, many NBR forum users moved over to NotebookTalk.net after the shutdown.
Someone already has a review of the GRAPHICS AMPLIFIER, because what I see on the internet are just comments and showing the device structure and no benchmarks
Having combined the multiple GA related threads into one, it is now very confusing. Replies are out of order and some without references, so it can be hard to understand the context to what someone is saying.
People keep complaining about the ga and nividia driver issues, I feel like people should just get a amd card then for now until nividia fixes the issue. Its not a huge deal.
I have an AMD R9 290X and GTX 980, both by Gigabyte and I totally went the AMD route for now.. don't want to install the 980 yet with all the issues.. so far, the 290X works just as expected with the AMD Graphics Amplifier driver provided... but the fan noise on the GA is.....loud... I actually disconnected it because it was getting to me..
Am I the only one who just can't make a business case for a graphics amplifier??
Lately I have been debating getting rid of my desktop and going back to laptop gaming. I have a 780 ti SLI setup with a 4k monitor. However what I Have realized is you can still play like ZERO games in 4k resolution with maxed out graphics.
Also that SLI is just not worth it, spotty performance with most modern titles. SLI is almost NEVER optimized on release date.
Anyways, if I bought a M15X with a 980m... what would be the point of a graphics amplifier? The 780ti gets what 20% more performance at best ....
Why would they not design it so that it works in sli utilizing the internal Video card & external card..
The reason for the GA is not so you can put your old 780 in there. The GA can be used to its fullest when the 980m is not able to pull in the fps you want in games and you can put in a 1080, or 1180 or what ever the next gen gpu is going to be. Its also designed more of a docking station so a single plug can allow your mouse, keyboard, and monitor to be hooked up.
People seem to forget the docking aspect of the ga.
Yeah the internal GPU is turned off, it might be how it gets enough power to overclock the CPU?
I wondered why they did not put in two slots for SLi but I'm not sure that this is necessary depending on what the GPU OEM's make? You can get dual core, Sli on a single card so any more than that is going to be overkill. According to the AW manual, you have to use an external display with a dual GPU card so there is also some other issue.
It's not difficult to add the slot but would be expensive to get there. Maybe something for a year or two down the road when we see what the OEM's come up with?
I do intend to look seriously at a an internal water loop just for fun though, but that's a while away ATM...
Has anyone provided benchmarks using external lcd from the e-gpu display output, and one using the internal lcd driven by the e-gpu? I wonder if Alienware is sending the video signal through the pci-e lanes, or using separate conductors when the internal lcd is used.
So its been two weeks and i still cant get anybody from dell to answer me. They keep telling me they are not doing returns that involve the GA and that i have to use the website to request an rma.
Problem is nobody responds to the online form. I sent in the request and got a confirmation from "
[email protected]". it said they would respond in 2-4 business days... its been two weeks and zero help from anybody on the phone... At this point the GA does not work at all.. Are there any alienware/dell reps that can help push this through or even get me an answer.... i submitted this reuqest the second day i had this laptop... we are now going on week three... i cant help but feel like they are just trying to wait out the month so they can deny the refund... im going to have to charge this back if nobody answers me.
We'd like to take a look at your case. I understand that you are outside out region but we can escalate the case internally for it to be taken care of. You may also PM me your info!
On a side note, did you try the new driver we posted on Alienware Arena?
Thank you for your time, i appreciate you responding to me.
I just tried the driver you suggested, and no luck... as with other versions it works while the ga is connected. but if i shutdown and remove ga and turn it back on.. then shut it down and reconnect ga and turn it on... im stuck with games trying to use intel graphics again and i must reinstall
Its a shame i wish there was a way to make this work...
Just tried again, installed with ga removed... removed all nvidia drivers... restarted... installed beta drivers with ga not attached... restarted... shut down... attached ga and turned on and no dice still intel graphics.... stuck in same loop i can have internal or ga but not both without having to reinstall every single time...
While technically possible... its a logistical nightmare... the bios on the system cuts off the internal graphics anytime the cord is connected (since it is using those lanes)... Bios tweaks and driver workarounds not withstanding... At best you would have to run off intel while its connected
It is really really hard to recommend you use the GA for anything other than the highest end cards... That not being elitest, but simply put the gap between mobile and desktop isnt nearly as much as it used to be... and quite frankly you loose a bit going with the GA... Honestly the 970m wouldnt have any trouble keeping up or flat out trouncing the cards you listed... Keep your money, seriously... you would be spending money to tie yourself to an external brick for less performance... This also excludes to blatant driver issues that exist currently...
I have a 13 if you looked at my signature. Not sure where you thought I had a 15/17R2.
And I am more update to date on the news of the GA and such. The driver issues have dwindled more than you think. From what I know, the only GPU that has trouble is, well, the GTX 760 non-OEM. Other than that, the other GPUs should work with the latest command center and dell driver.
I'm also not spending anymore than the most expensive on that list. I have other things to spend, rather save, my money.
My apologies, no i did not notice you had the 13... But even with the 13's i7 its the low power neutered version, with limited lane support. Your GA performance gap is still going to be even larger than that of the 15-17's. As such while you will be able to best your 860m... with the options you are looking at its going to be pretty marginal.
As for drivers, unless you are going amd no there is no solution right now as of today. The problems are not as systemic on the lower end cards but they absolutely exist. Also keep in mind that even when the drivers are workign correctly they are still hamstrung by what i consider bad implementation... Things like the integrated graphics being forced to power all non games even when run through the video card...
I've been following the GA issue since its beginning. I already know the functional solutions. I know of the bandwidth limitations yet that doesn't deter me from my end.
If you aren't going to assist and repeat things I already know, then please don't advise.
However, I can help with your situation. The standard uninstall and reinstall won't work very effectively.
I have seen people being successful using these steps.
Someone used this
workaround, and he got it to work.
I would also update to the latest GA and command center software. Someone got the GA to work fine doing that (after the steps I quoted).
Using any non-Dell drivers seem to cause an issue.
Don't listen to him. Try bending this thing and you will understand there's a whole aluminum body with carbon fiber inside. There's hardly any plastic on this laptop. And where it's I would prefer it to be plastic. I work with aluminum and if you really think aluminum is going be less scratch resistant or any harder to make at that thin of a piece you're wrong. Even the fan vents are metal... this makes my all metal Lenovo feel cheap.
These things are out in the wild, i didnt say it wasnt solid i said the avertising is a flat out lie and it is made primarly made of plastic... it has been taken apart, there is some cf resin with reinforcements...
I restate the obviously that it is very cheaply made... which is fine given the price.. but then you need to advertise it appropriatly.
I chuckle a little bit at the aluminum comment... again go take a look at an XPS 15... also made by dell and what these where suppose to be modeled after... Maybe then you will see what i mean by aluminum and CF.
Because a guy got it to work once does not an acceptable driver make... I get nightly driver builds from directly from AW as we try and figure it out.... they do NOT work... You can use internal GPU or external... any hotswaping requires reinstallation... some workaround provide temporary fixes but cause other more serious bugs.
Its your money do what you want but you seem to just want advice on which card to buy. To that end just pick a card in your budget, the diffference is so marginal it is of little rubuke.
That said the 960OC (EVGA) is going to be your best bet performance wise.
I am repeating them for the benefit of those reading the thread they need to understand that (when) you buy one of those cards, you are going to be woefully disappointed in the performance and will have spent quite a bit of money to do so...
Given the best I have is a GTX 660, I'm not sure how I'll be disappointed.
Also, multiple people have gotten the steps I quoted to work. If you don't want to trust me (the multiple people I have seen have success) or what I recommend, then that's on you. I'm just trying to help.
Its not an issue of trust, its an issue of truth. What you suggest (which is just a simple reinstallation). Works for some people in some instances temporarily. When alienware/dell and nvidia tell you it is impossible for this to work as advertised. When i am still getting nightly builds directly from dell as they tweak the drivers everyday to try and work through the littany of systemic issues. I know for a fact that the drivers do not work... Its a simple matter of impossibility.
Just because you can install the driver and play a game does not a working driver make. Hotswapping is only one of over 800 current bugs in the driver build list that they are working through daily. If you only need the card to work in one scenerio and just play a game then sure you can wait it out for a proper driver and be merry. But to even begin to use this as designed right now is beyond broken...
So by your logic, if one person isn't getting something to work for a long time period or at all but others can for a long time period or at all, then the something is broken in general.
So by that logic, if one cannot get a brand name lawn mower to work but others can, then brand name lawn mower is broken in general.
I'm just trying to be on the same page as you. I think the word you wanted to use is flawed,and not broken. And I can agree on that. It doesn't work for every GPU and some have problems making it work as intended. But broken is on another scale. Much higher than flawed or damaged. There needs to be 99% "non-functional" feedback to prove that the GA is broken. And that hasn't been nor is the consensus.
GTX 860m is about a GTX 750 ti which is less powerful than a GTX 650 TI BOOST, which too is less powerful than a GTX 660. So I'm bound to see some noticeable improvement with any of the GPUs listed as all are more powerful than a GTX 660.
No your misunderstanding... As i said above drivers will work for gaming atleast temporarily. But what people are not realizing, atleast not directly are all the other things that are broken. Im not saying "WAA" mine isnt working... Im saying it is litterally impossible that one single person on this planet has a working driver for the GA... it is impossible. There are some versions that will work for hotswap (temporarily) and some versions that work for internal or external. But in all cases those drivers are broken and cause a slew of other issues. Some of which are public and have been discussed here and others have not. Things that you notice and just find a bit odd... I cant actually go any further in discussing the list due to NDA but its a big ol' list unfortunately.
In an apples to apples work yes a 960 should be sizable but, you a take a big hit due to your processor and second you take another hit due to the GA...
When its all said and done that 960 will give you about 8% over your 860m. Which again its your money... but 200 for a graphics card... 300 for an amp... seems oftly pricy proposition per performance gain to most...
I would also like to point out that things like this "workaround" you suggested to avoid reinstalling drivers do work... of course you have to do it everytime you want to use the ga, and this flavor of driver breaks the use of the internal gtx card... but hey maybe this isnt that big of a deal to you....
This is why i call it broken. If there were little glitches here or there... minor issues we could call it flawed... When the core functionality does not work correct and you have to "workaround" it and you have a list of bugs, some of which are very troubling in nature... this is a beta driver at best.... which is okay but then dont release a production product that requires it. When you sell a product knowing it is impossible to work as advertised... well that enters a legal grey area...
The fans in the alienware 15 are practically the size of the new XPS 15 xD. All I'm trying to say is just because there's plastic doesn't mean the quality is bad. It's built way better then the new MacBook pro. My brother has one. And we have a Lenovo Y50.. That computer is cheap. Whenever I pick that thing up with one hand feels saggy as hell.
Fair enough, not sure what fans have to do with anything? Ill give you its a step of from say a toshiba, and even the lenovo. It does feel pretty solid, ofcourse alot of that just comes from the sheer weight of it.
I am a bit jaded as they sold it as one thing and delivered another. Some of the things seem little, like the glass used on the screen. Most wouldn't think twice about it, but coming from something like the gorilla glass used int he xps touchscreen to the rotgut cheap stuff used in these i cant help but feel cheated. This is also why the lumen output is so low compared to the spec... and why fingerprints are so terrible.
The case itself was suppose to be this evolutionary design... instead its pretty much the same as it has always been... A bit stiffer and harder to get into, but plastic none the less...
I was just to make sure we align peoples expectations... there is a ton of room for improvement here.
The fans in the alienware 15 are practically the size of the new XPS 15 xD. All I'm trying to say is just because there's plastic doesn't mean the quality is bad. They
I'm just curious. Where are you finding what the screen is made of? Also what's plastic and what isn't? I've seen it opened up but it looks like most of it is harder to see if you don't take it apart. I don't plan on doing that because I have no need. I understand where you are coming from, it didn't change much since the 14. I can tell it has a nicer feel. The touchscreen and the body just looks better imop. It's the same thickness and I can't tell the difference in weight. Considering the 15 is a bigger screen with new keys it's a good upgrade to me. And the gtx750m?.. The y510p could run that in sli for Almost 500 dollars cheaper.. I'm very happy with the hardware, gtx 980m is a beast.
Then Alienware and I must have different findings because I do know at least one person having the GA run just fine. (and no, it's not me. I just got mine) But if that is what they think, I can understand the mindset.
Just did a quick calculation of the GTX 750 ti and the GTX 980 on Firestirke. Found at least a ~20% difference between them. I think the $200 will be well served.
Using the GA on its own connected to my 13 with no GPU is interesting.
On ACC, it'll say disconnected, but that's only because there's no GPU. Otherwise, it acts as a USB hub. No AlienFX, but since everything inside the thing is running, I wonder if this could open up more possibilities to connect to the GA. I don't know if the PCI-E slot is active, but if it is, then a PCI-E SSD or sound card could work without much problem since the Command center won't detect a external GPU.
You'd still be limited on x4 lanes, but it'll be better than SATA III.
Someone from another forum said "EDIT2: OK i tried to download the newest NVIDIA Notebook Driver (347.52) from
www.nvidia.com and it worked! No need for modded drivers from alienware from now on?"
Im still not sure what the size of a fan has to do with the build quality of the chasis... i i think i know what your aiming for
Well first the XPS is actually sold as a selling point that it is gorilla. Second its pretty easy to tell, although if you didnt have them side by side it may not be apparent. Regular ol' glass is fine for most people.. This glass is on the cheaper side but im splitting hairs a bit. Honestly its the limited light output and the way it muddies fingerprints that bothers me more than the fact that it will shatter/scratch very easily. As for the spec its on the actual PCO but it only list it as "generic glass" and quality 3. Which if they are following the same standards as the rest of the industry thats pretty crummy.
Yes we had a couple taken apart, it is almost exclusively plastic with some resin and cf reinforcements... none of which you see.
As to your other point, yes it is a slight upgrade over the older AW's... but it was pitched as this evolutionary redesign with quality in mind
But i dont want it to all sound negative... These are uncharacteristically cheap (price wise) for alienware... and it is a business after all so corners needed to be cut. I am more just trying to make people aware so they can make an informed decision, since AW is being a bit more cryptic in its adverts.
"Fine" is the scary word that i am just trying to get people to be cautious of. The playing the games part is not really that much of an issue, performance is still off by 2-3% but thats negligible. And at worst you are re installing drivers or resyncing device manager ect. Its not the end of the world. Its all the other issues that would make this an actual production product, that fall flat. I really wish i could go into more detail to help everybody better appreciate these issues. All i can say is try to do something that you would on a desktop with this card (or worse once removed) and see if you can spot the issues. The goods news is i know most of it is being rectified in the next driver cycle in 3 weeks... and so long as the power management issues are resolved this might actually become usable.
I am holding AW to a pretty high standard here for selling an unfinished product. Sadly a growing portion of AW customers these days are not the most tech savy. Playing with the registry and drivers is a great way to brick a machine when they dont know what they are doing.
So riddle me this... Do you think it is acceptable/would you feel comfortable, in the fact that AW sells and ships a product right now that when it arrives you hook it up and it does not work. Fresh out of the box, the ga will not work. Since i atleast have faith that somebody bothered to try before they created the image and started shipping units. That means they knew it didnt work and decided to ship anyway..... shady
Absolutely, except its 500 once you include the GA itself, and most of the 20% gets soaked up into general losses due to cpu and bandwith limitations.
I just checked with the powers that be and technically speaking there would not be any limitations to do this. So long as you understand that A: you will be forced to use intel graphics, and B: it will require a modified driver, that depending on what you put in might take some extensive work(BIOS). But the AlienFX and USB hub will still function. This has already been tested internally for an alternate product sku. 4 lanes should be more than enough (8lanes on 4710). But it still seems a bit pricy... hmmm
Well $400 because I didn't pay $300 for the GA. I don't think the GA itself is worth 300. And even then, it should be less than $400 with the deals I have.
I think people acknowledge these issues. Not all people, of course. That's not to be expected, but a good chunk do know. But my context of "fine" is not the the short term usage you implied and are weary of. More or less, it's the long term usage. Someone used the steps I provided, updated their ACC and GA software, and has been running it for a couple of days without problems (and considering his nature, I would think he would have said something about reinstalling drivers as he doesn't like annoyances such as redundancy). If he keeps this up for a week or two, he should be A-Okay.
Let me put it this way. If some GPUs can work fine in the GA but others can't, can you consider the GA broken and not flawed? AMD GPUs seem to have gotten the better end of the stick (there are some problems with a couple of GPUs), and when it came to Nvidia GPUs initally, the 900 series and the GTX 760 non-OEM were the main ones causing problems; the other GPUs make the GA work as intended.
There's one of the problems, the GPUs not initially supported, which happened to be the most popular ones, were not functioning as intended. Hence why I can't say it is broken. Because 3 GPUs on the Nvidia side out of 14 or 15 don't work and made up the majority of the GA owners. The other GPUs work.
So the GA works... just not flawlessly with some of the most popular GPUs, sadly. Alienware knew the GA worked as intended, but what they didn't know was that there were problems with the latest GPUs (and it didn't help that their initial drivers didn't have the hardware IDs for the 980, 970, and 760, and the latest ones still don't have one for the 760). Things were also made worse when the 2015 models shipped out too early. There had to be an error for them to be shipped out the middle of last month when they were to be shipped near the end of last month or the beginning of this month. Alienware wasn't prepared for that, and it made the GA issues worse when the drivers in the 2015 laptops initially weren't available anywhere but on a factory image (all the GPUs in the 2015 model are 900m series by hardware ID, which the initial drivers did not have).
You have a GTX 970. Most likely, Alienware is doing testing with the 900 series with you (you don't have to respond to this. I know that you're under NDA). That means you can only speak about those with a 900 series GPU unless you happen to have a 700 (sans 760) or 600 series GPU with you or an AMD GPU.
Are there things that surprise me about the GA's workability? Yes. Am I willing to show every solution that has a flawless result? Yes. And the other solutions? They're outdated, so no need for them.
The newest mobile drivers actually worked with someone for working the GA and the mobile GPU (we know the mobile GPU cannot accept the official Nvidia driver). I'm trying to understand why that is. The consensus is that it shouldn't work, but it somehow did for this one user. The more information available, the better the explanation of why some work and some don't.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
