I have returned my Alienware 17 R5 i9-8950HK, GTX 1080 - but still like it

Hello everyone,

As you may know from other threads I was having (over)heating issues with my brand new laptop and decided to return it for a refund.

Tech support had offered and had ordered a brand new replacement for me but I declined and decided to cancel completely.

I love the machine it oozes of quality and is thin and sleek, it is not a small suitcase on the desk like other machines are.

Customer services who have arranged for the return have told me that if I order a new one it will definitely not suffer the same issues and I will have another 14-day refund period and brand new one year's warranty.

So here I am asking should I buy it again in case the new one is built better?

 

LOL go for it, if too hot, return. And again and again till new video cards come out.

 

join the club!
mine is due to be collected tomorow,
Im looking for something with a 1070 card.
I was tempted with the XPS as i was underwhelmed by the screen on my 15r4 1080 IPS and have had one before but they dont put decent GPU's in there. Might give the TN panel a shot?

I just dont know what to get - im tempted to reorder the alienware but a i7 because the alternatives - XPS or inspiron gaming (which is plastic fantastic).

Im considering reordering after a few more ppl get decent laptops - i was disheartened as its the first laptop im returning and i spent 2k on it!

 

I spent £3,400+.

The 1080 can just about cope with the 4K screen (85 FPS at full settings but with very dodgy CPU thermals), and there are new cards coming out in August, and you will get better mileage from the -80 series than the -70 series as games become even more demanding in the next couple of years.

I would not go for a FHD panel either; no point when the 4Ks are around. FHD is very old now and yes you can tell the difference, luckily I did not listen to the FHD evangelists and their claims... But if you want over 60 FPS in shooter games then I do not think there is a 4K screen just yet, or did I spot an MSI ? I cannot remember.

I might go for an MSI if only they had local presence like Dell (no UK MSI that you can buy directly from) and I have not yet found a UK MSI retailer that will let you configure, just as Dell do, or offer 14-day refunds etc.

So it seems it might be Del again and crossing fingers that it is built better?

 

Ive kind of got used to the FHD - i dont mind it if its going to give me more mileage compared to a 4k which would be using the GPU all day long with no way to turn it off. Im not sure but does that Optimus thing work with these laptops?
If so i wouldnt mind going 4k. Im not bothered about having a high fps rate- as long as its 40-60 its fine, more about quality of picture... saying that ive got used to this fhd screen despite the slight blur or almost watermark chequered like image on there compared to my old XPS.

Was a bit concerned about the other guy who posted in the 15r4 thread saying hes had the same issues with core temps on his 8850/i7!

Hopefully it settles soon as I dont plan on waiting for the next GPUs. By the way dell introduce them it will be a day and an age before the high end ones come out. I still remember those who had the alienwares with 1050's not too long ago

 

Well I Clevo is also the same as MSI, as Sager and some gigabyte laptops.

Look around there are plenty of stores where you can find Clevo laptops, even with desktop cpu's. For example this laptop https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/vortexVIII-17/
It's A bit bulky, but that's what you want if you want good thermals. AW has passed a threshold where the laptops are too thin to create and msaintain enough airflow in the chassis to cool down it's heatsinks. This Clevo would have no problem cause of the copper that's inside and desktop cpu clamp (and able to delid) all for almost the same price (with even the option to go sli) with the money you paid. You should have a desktop replacement with the same desktop thermals Clevo delivers.

Maybe @Papusan can Enlighten you more and guide you the proper way through the lands of the enthousiast only

 

The new cards are rumored to come in december. This is baed on what gigabyte said about the release of new laptops with new gpus.

But i do feel the current gpu's are a step too far for this class laptops. Even though the gpu stays nice and cool with decent paste (65c~70c) for most users the shared heatsink designs heat up the cpu in pretty much all models and pretty much all laptops in this class need a repaste out of the box. But yeah i wouldbt want to carry around a thick dtr laptop as well.

 

Clevo is the same as MSI? I do not follow, what do you mean?

I already own two Clevos Vortex c 2014 with i7-4710MQ and GTX-970M. I am using it now as I type this. The Clevo is much bulkier and of lesser quality in general. The AW17 is very slick.

 

The chassis is the same, MSI, gigabyte and a few other customize it to reflect their brand Image.

Eurocom, Clevo/sager/bto are essentially the barebone chassis All the big brands use. Just like how AW, Asus, MSI use the same off the shelves heatsink and motherboard designs (with a few custom parts).

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Clevo-MSI-and-Compal-Barebones.99905.0.html

Build quality may be better, but AW it's quallity assurance is is utter garbage. You won't have anything useful with the build quality if your machine does not even function how it is inded to be used.

Barebones are much user friendly machines that have more ports, more HDD space and upgrade ability. Not by a graphics amplifier, but with a socketed cpu and a mxm GPU. So even if there Nvidia or AMD release new Video cards, you still can upgrade your whole machine.

 

Its only a matter of time MXM boards are discontinued as well unfortunately, next to that they are waaaaaay too expensive. close to 1000euro's for a 1080 board is nuts.

Alienware designs their laptops in cooperation with Compal, Asus design them themselves, Gigabyte was a laptop OEM as well (for Razer). BUt i dont consider them all using off the shelf parts. They do outsource almost all their heatsinks to CCI though.

 

Just returned mine! The guy came to pick it up.
Had a look on pc specialist at the 15 inch octane.

Much more options including better thermal paste.

Only thing is... Chassis looks like the Acer predator... Plastic all the way. No premium feel.
If only there was a xps/alienware build quality with decent thermals.

 

I strongly suggest anyone with temp issues send your Alienware back and look for a different brand. I have a 15 R3 with a 7820 and 1070 that went in for heat issues. They replaced the motherboard. Two months later, more issues, so they replaced memory. Two months after that the laptop died. Dell is telling me I am out of warranty because the reseller purchased the system in March of 2017. I purchased it new and sealed on September 6th 2017. I took the laptop to a repair center and there are 3 blown capacitors on the motherboard. So more overheating. Good luck trying to reach dell outside of the robots that tell you that your warranty has expired. I am not a dell or alienware hatter. I am speaking from experience. Prior to this Alienware, I have had 3-4 others with no issues. Their quality is crap now and their support is even worse.

Timeline=

09/2017--Purchased new and sealed.
11/2017--Sent in for heating issues
01/2018--Started getting memory issues reported from dell diagnostic tool
03/2018--Dell claims warranty expired
04/2018--2k plus laptop completely dies.

 

Thats kinda the fault of the reseller though regarding warranty. Would be nice if they checked your invoice, but the reseller clearly didnt had his business in order.

 

that mxm won't be around for long is being said for six years already.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-will-the-mxm-3-0b-standard-be-around.700560/

it's really up to third party manufactures to create MXM cards, nvidia does not create them.

most of the motherboards use the same layout, with same heatsink. and funny enough, they all suffer the same problems. so for me they're definitely off the shelve designs. MXM is just a connection type, just like PCIE. so it's not up to nvidia to stop the production. and that the costs are higher cause the tolerances are smaller than on desktop cards. there are so much transistors etc that need to be squeezed on a small pcb that it requires different manufacture techniques that have less tolerances then on desktop cards. so the price is justifyable.

The motherboards and heatsinks almost all have the same layout, so for me they're off the shelve parts, especially if almost all manufactures with the same setup have the same problems. but thats more personal i think.

 

Wait, it seems to me that they are all separate ?

Yes it's just a very plasticky enclosure with no premium feel. I have two "Vortex" so I know. They also have crap ports, USBs stop working you need resets, audio jacks many times not working, SD card reader does not physically fit many SD cards, mismatched speaker levels so my left speaker is louder etc

Had these two laptops been Alienwares we would be bashing Dell for crap quality, but these things happen to anything you may buy. That is where you need a good supplier to provide after sales service if things go wrong..

 

Laptop was picked up yesterday by courier. I am awaiting to see the refund hitting my account. It will probably take a while for them to process the return and debit my account.

 

Well this is exactly why i stick with dell. I've heard the horror stories but i've had a dell studio 17, XPS 15 and both are great. The XPS was a i7 -2670m with a 540m from 2011 and i just put a SSD in - boots up in 6 seconds and brilliant FHD screen. They do have good build quality but im just confused on what to do now.
Debating an XPS with external GPU and a 1070/1080 vs rebuying the alienware with a i7 and 1070. possibly with a TN screen because for some reason the 1080 IPS screen on my alienware looked worse (less bright and sharp) then my 2011 XPS 1080 IPS screen? I dont get how though?

 

Thats because there are not many ways to do it as far as I can see, also Intel provides them with a reference board layout schematic.

But yeah Nvidia kinda stopped supporting MXM boards and you do see less and less laptops supporting them which is a double edged sword, people dont want to spend that huge amount money for them, the customer base is shrinking so prices are raised again in return. But I simply refuse to pay up to double of what the desktop board costs.

 

In my case, from the tests I did and other posts I have read around here, I think I had a badly fitted CPU heatsink which created huge temperature spikes with no CPU%, uneven cores, and overall "crapness". However inside the same laptop, the GPU was running HAPPILY at 190W and 70C. That worked well. The PCH was hot. The SSD was hot. The keyboard was hot. The fans were LOUD.

The question is, even if we had a properly fitted CPU heatsink, would we then improve on the other problems? How do the other gaming laptops fare in this respect? PCH temps? SSD temps? Keyboard temps? Fan noise?

How about service? I have considered MSI for example, but they have no direct sales like Dell has. I would have to buy from some retailer and my service agreement would be with that retailer, not with MSI. Clevo was my first attempt, before even looking at Dell, but they do not sell the configuration I need (i9-8950 and GTX-1080 and 4K screen). ASUS is again the same, no way to configure your laptop you got to buy whichever model and configuration the retailer has in stock.

If only they made a "compact" desktop - something I could fit inside cabin luggage like I can *just* fit the 17" laptops + cooling base...

 

They don't have a direct sales, because Clevo works with a VAR. A Value Added Reseller. Meaning that the reseller customized the Clevo Barebones to it's needs and sells it. It's a chassis from Clevo, but a laptop from Vortex you're buying from for example PC specialist in the UK.

You won't have nothing do to with Clevo, because Clevo does not sell directly to people. That's just how they work. Everywhere in the world, Clevo's are sold by a third party reseller. You never will have direct sales (except in taiwan) with Clevo, cause the third party reseller customizes it to it's needs.

The reason also why you don't see the HK processor is why ? Why would you sell a chip that's broken (from factory) to put in on a soldered motherboard.

You have to realize that the laptops with soldered parts are very different from the ones with a MXM and socketed cpu. For example these laptops can be customized with LM from factory when ordering your laptop. USB ports can be exchanged for other ports. There are more screen options and there are a heck of a lot more fans and copper within the laptops (usually 3 fans alone)

If you want a K processor you need to buy a K processor. Not the soldered crap that has been binned to a HK. Because Dell cannot cope with a socket and MXM connections, they buy pre-made motherboards with binned cpu's in bulk.

With Clevo, cyberpower, PC specialist, skypc, eurocom, Clevo and Sager you KNOW that you're getting the same cpu the desktops use. So when the time comes and you want to migrate to a desktop, you could still use your cpu. Same goes for the gpu. With the soldered crap, when it's done it's done.

 

Depends on how you look at it as long as companies keep using the same mxm design like how they used to, it won't need to go away.

https://www.pcgamer.com/digital-sto...-cooled-gtx-1080-into-a-really-small-chassis/

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1105...x-using-microstx-motherboard-with-mxm-support

https://techreport.com/news/33076/project-spark-mini-pc-packs-a-core-i7-8700k-and-a-gtx-1080

Those are all manufacturers that have announced a desktop PC with MXM connections. And there are plenty more laptops that desktops with MXM.

Also MXM is created by MXM-SIG and has nothing do to with Intel.

And why bother with that, if you can get a 1070 and let it run at the same wattage of the 1080 ?

In those big and bulky laptops it's possible to run everything beyond stock, and tune it to hell without it being locked. (Unlike how AW locked the bios, Videocard, Ram etc)

While those laptops support custom fan tables, custom overclock tables and a wider overclock support from the get go. You'll get software that can be used to utilize every MHz from you laptop. While with AW you have to be lucky to have a good fitted heatsink. Or a good screen, Or good AlienFx, etc.

There are 1070's that fun faster than founders edition 1080 just so you know. But if you lock the tdp @150 watts you won't ever get more performance from the Videocard whereas within the Barebones there is plenty enough room to TDP mod and OC cpu gpu ram cache PCH and so on. Where as AW is locked. What your chip can to it can do, but you never can or will find it's true potential.

 

I was talking about MSI in the UK (and EU), and Asus, HP and other large manufacturers. I know PCSpecialist, I have purchased and been using two "Vortex" from them in 2014, and I know they sell Clevos and that they call them different names, so the Clevo P775 is called "Vortex" or "Octane" or whatever other name they use. I also know they have good after sales service and support although I did not use them when I should have because my laptop suffer many issues. But it is MSI and other large manufacturers I was referring to : how can you buy a customised MSI to your specs and from whom in UK/EU ?

 

https://www.msi.com/service/wheretobuy/#39,3,London

you can't. because it's a MSI. it's tailor made to how MSI markets it brand. you can only buy soldered laptops from MSI from third party resllers (like how AW motherboards are). only in the US and in TAIWAN do they build MSI barebones, but that's because MSI is much bigger in the US and it's home market. that's why i said that all the other laptops are the same. it's just the outside design (or maybe the port layout) like rgb stuff and type of motherboard used etc that are differen. but internally there is almost no difference between those brands. and the best part is that those laptops are hand build and have GOOD QUALTY Q&A not dell quality.

 

I've returned 2 R5's, was hesitant but decided to go for a third, 1 hour after I ordered I got a call from Dell asking if I'm going to return the 3rd... Wtf! I haven't even revreced it yet! I said I'll return if it overheats like the previous 2... Well they said they'll call me back... They never called back, I dunno if there is an order now or what, Dell is a bunch of ass hats, they said there was a new and improved cooling system in the R5, I opened my R4 and compared heat syncs and fans and they look identical to me. Liars.

 

Hmm nto really correct to be honest, intel does not give support and warranty to manufacturers that use desktop cpu's in laptops. Clevo is not making a lot of those units so they can take a loss if something does go wrong.

If laptops start to fail because of the CPU's Dell, Asus etc can claim it on intel. If they would sell desktop CPU's in those tens and even hundreds of thousands of systems they are on their own if there is a major malfunction in those cpu's sold. At least thats what the manufacturers claim.

 

Clevo produce the Barbone system (Clevo don't sell complete systems to the end customers). Up to the reseller to put in the Cpu customere want. And none, I say none know how Clevo cooperate with Intel (support). For the records... Clevo have designed and produced LGA machines a very long time. We all know why Azor went with BGA. The AGA (more you can throw on the customer, the better), thinner notebooks and of course lower the cost. As always, let the buyers pay for broken hardware (Most hardware fail after 1 year)... It's up to the customer pay for prolonged Premium support. Dell will always dump down on their feets.

 

You are right about that the resellers and custoemrs assemble it with the CPU's included but still if they where sold on a large scale Intel would not give any support on it. Now it is kinda bypassed.

Most hardware doesnt fail according to statistics after 1 year. But the failure rate tends to be the largest part in the first year.

 

Did you by any chance take photos of R4 and R5 internals? It would be great if you had.

 

I think it would be worth it to try and order a new one. It shouldn't be throttling the CPU in WoW at 20% usage.. I was able to run five copies of WoW on a stock paste R4 with a 6820HK / GTX 1080 without throttling, so something must have been seriously wrong with the factory paste job on yours.

If you like the Alienware design and build quality, the only way to get one that works is the either return / rebuy, have an onsite tech do a repaste, do a repaste yourself, or pay someone to do a repaste for you. I think the option that is the least headache is to pay someone to do the repaste, so if the new machine still doesn't work well, maybe ask Dell for a partial refund to cover the cost of paying someone to do a repaste.

 

I received email from customer services that they have received my laptop and are processing the refund.

I would definitely order the same again but it appears their China factory lets crap out of the door, they are not to be trusted. I might really hit the same/similar issues again with another one. There are how many people here complaining of the exact same thing, CPU hot, PCH hot, SSD hot, CPU throttles. No one has complained about the GPU getting hot, because it does not, it runs perfectly.

I also like the idea of trying to beef up the cooling system with PCH cooler and a repaste but I cannot believe that the factory idiots would use inferior thermal grease on a £3,400 laptop which predominantly suffers from overheating!

 

join the club!
I returned mine yesterday but no email yet.
I will probably end up buying another alienware but just need to figure out which screen to get , definately going to go with the i7 but im just shocked at how many ppl have problems....
maybe the volume of returns might get them to change something?
I cant see anyone on here who says theyre happy or has stable temps

 

why would you need intel support ? it's not like you're buying a cpu, gpu ASIC wifi card etc at them, they're just a manufacturer. they manufactur, they sell companies buy, most of the times they leave the names of intel etc on the products (removing the brand name costs a loyalty fee) and the third party companies sell them within a complete product (like a laptop or desktop pc).

 

they're the same. only the top cpu arm has been reinforced, and moved a little bit to the right. the r4 and r5 are almost the same.

 

Yes I got pictures, I'll post once I get home.

 

Not true.

Last R5 I returned had both CPU AND GPU steady at 100 degrees and throttled to about half of the usuable speed .

 

I'm sure Clevo have proper dialog with it's partners(Intel and it's customers - not the end users, as Clevo don't sell to them).

R4

R5. The TRIPOD leg moved to right vs. its predecessor. As well now use a very small vapor champer above the cpu die.

 

I have edited your photo and have labelled the components, I believe I am correct? CPU, GPU, PCH and SSD?

1) Why does the PCH get incredibly hot but *only* when the GPU is active? Is it because it is handling all the graphics between GPU, CPU and display panel?

2) Can we see that the GPU and CPU plates are very close together and are connected with three beefy heat pipes? Are the two heatsinks aligned perfectly on the GPU and CPU? Are they so perfectly level so that they make perfect contact even without forcing them down with screws? If they are not perfectly level, are the 4 and 3 tiny screws and tabs man enough to overcome the strength of the 3 heat pipes that connect CPU and GPU?

3) Why does the SSD also get incredibly hot but only when the GPU is active?

 

Read how the PCH chips works. The whole hardware need to talk with each other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_Controller_Hub


https://hothardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-7700k-and-z270-chipset-review?page=2

 

The problems are real, and the only way to avoid it is to just avoid the brand. Maybe a Clevo with a good paste job is a better choice in your case. The keyboard / chassis are a step down from the Alienware, but it would offer much more consistent performance out of the box.

 

It looks like the CPU talks directly to PCI Express Graphics and does not channel through the PCH ? Again, why then the PCH gets so hot when the GPU is active but not when the CPU is active alone?

 

because it's still need to be sorted by the pch and then it get's processed. The do not forget Intel has an interested graphics solution. The gpu is on the PCIE express at the Chipset. the PCH your gpu and cpu would not get the data it needs from the SSD/HDD or wifi to update your screen. Direct Media Interface ( DMI) is the link between the cpu/intergated graphics and Chipset. Your Chipset (PCH) has a PCIE connection where the dGpu is connected, Sound Ram and the rest of your motherboard, and is essentially the "new" northbridge and southbridge connections. it act's sorta like a PCIE connection.

when both the gpu and cpu are active, the pch sorts a tremendous amount of data streams without the user noticing (except when the PCH clocks down). some motherboards/bioses provide PCH overclocking support, and can be compared to the FSB (Front Side Bus) overclocking. basically it's the brain of the motherboard, that sorts the data and makes sure the components get the right data at the right time.

 

I am pretty sure that the Alienware 17 R4 has both the dedicated GPU (via an 8x connection) and the AGA (via a 4x connection) connected directly to CPU. Everything else, SSD (PCIe and SATA), network, USB, TB3, goes through DMI to the PCH.

 

yeah you're right. the GPU is directly connected to the CPU. back in the day they where apart from eachother. nowadays that GPU's use the full x16 CPU Lanes, that's why people say SLI is dying. when in sli, you need a minimum of 40 Lane CPU. so your motherboard won't restrict your CPU lane bandwith.

Also is the AGA restricted to PCI/e 3.0 x4 because it passes through the DMI. so that also verify's your point.

 

Therefore the reason the PCH gets exceedingly hot when the external VGA is busy is not known?

 

it is known. the chassis is simply to thin to provide enough airflow to cool it without a heatsink. there fore using a heatsink brings the pch temps down (because the heatsink, improves it's abillity do dissipate heat.)