How to explain Thermal Throttling to senior representatives of Dell(India)?

Undervlot to -140mV. -150mv caused BSOD.

Increased to 92W. NO use. Still, Max is 45W in HwINFO

Pic of XTU:
http://i.imgur.com/VkiMTxA.png

GPU + FPU with undervolting. 797MHz bug identified!:
http://i.imgur.com/fj18ckB.png

Again, 797.7MHz throttling bug is not fixed. Happens very rarely, but, happens!

 

Yeah, 45w is as expected for locked down 6700hq. The results will be better if you re-paste with a better thermal paste. A new MB will probably not fix it. And you will most likely get a new same ****y thermal paste from DELL.

6700hq can hold turbo boost in Msi's model. As you can see lower temp will help.


Alienware 17R3 with 6700Hq can hold 2.9-3.0GHz. As stated from Notebookcheck.net "There was only temporary throttling."

 

The best available in India is - http://www.amazon.in/Arctic-ORACO-MX40001-BL-MX-4-Thermal-Compound/dp/B0045JCFLY/ . Already tried. No results
Gelid GC Extreme - http://www.amazon.in/Solutions-GC-Extreme-Thermal-Compound-TC-GC-03/dp/B002P5W4RU but it is very costly.
Thermal grizzly Kryonaut - http://www.amazon.in/dp/B011F7W3LU/. Extremely costly

 

Don't buy cheap!! Run after Gelid Extreme or Thermal grizzly Kryonaut. Both is good thermal paste. Some mean Kryonaut is the best ordinary paste out there. You need it if you want to try fix this mess. No guarantee you will fix it 100% but you will get a better results.
Edit. If you have the money. Maybe consider buy and make a U3 mod

 

Use this paste http://www.amazon.in/Cooler-Master-MasterGel-performance-Compound/dp/B019PZ1P54

 

gc or mastergel

gc is more proven, idk about mastergel

 

@Papusan: I beat my past wprime 32m and 1024m scores. I'm number 1 in wprime 1024m and number 2 in wprime 32m. Thanks.
I am willing to test the extent of i7 6700hq in winter because my room temps now 35C.
1024m -> hwbot.org/submission/3542080_v56m_wprime___1024m_core_i7_6700hq_3min_25sec_755ms
32m -> http://hwbot.org/submission/3542079_v56m_wprime___32m_core_i7_6700hq_6sec_726ms
I repasted using CM Master Gel Maker Nano Thermal Paste after @judal57 suggested me. Thank you @judal57 . I'm very happy with the results.
@sagarbhathwar: You could see this as a reference, I used CPUz's stress test and Bench test to test CPU clocks.

 

What's your bet? GC or Kryonaut? The options @sagarbhathwar have researched. Haven't tried Kryo but Gelid.

 

kryo is good

gc is good

mastergel should be somewhat similar? @bloodhawk


I have yet to test mastergel

 

@Papusan and @sagarbhathwar: This is my AIDA64 stability test.

 

hey that looks pretty ok

try fpu only

 

I'll post in a few hours.

 

@Vasudev should run FPU and GPU only checked. Aka @sagarbhathwar's problem.

 

Yeah Mastergel is pretty close to Kryonaut. Main drawback is that its much thinner.

 

@Mobius 1: Here is the result with FPU only in AIDA64.

 

@Papusan: I have the test here GPU + FPU, yes temps are in the range of 97C. But the thing is Intel HD gfx is also used, I don't know why? That's causing the temps to spike up rapidly, I disabled Intel GPU and temps was down to 85C-87C.

 

This means the processor can't hold 3.1GHz all 4 cores, although Package Power is a way lower than 45W? Aka thermal throttling is the culprit and processor down clock to 2.9GHz. Same as @sagarbhathwar's Alienware 17R3 but with the smaller 15R2 chassis. Maybe @rinneh can chime in and run exactly same tests for verification.

 

Dunno I ran it for 6 minutes and I have no throttling as you can see and my temps are way lower, fans hardly even spin up. ambient temp of 23c now.

Kryonaut paste and stock thermal pads.

 

@Papusan and @rinneh : Does ambient room temps make a difference because my room temp was above 35C?

 

Yeah, your 6700hq can hold max 4 core clock speed and fully 45w TDP due lower temp. It seems Dell has put in too low temp throttling threshold in firmware. Several ODM's do it equal. I mean I have seen some Asus models before have 80-83C as max temp before clocks beginning drops.

Edit. @Vasudev Of course high ambient temp can make a difference!!

 

room temp extreme

how you not die inside?

 

Got used to it. Usually at night we turn ON AC to cool things, otherwise all my family will be ready to eat Barbecue Sticks. On the outside it is cooler with high humidity. I recently visited my neighboring state where temps are 43C and I literally felt I was Human Torch from Fantastic 4.

 

Then test by night

 

Yeah the thing is, I have a fairly low fanspeed while running this so there is still a lot of headroom. But @Vasudev is running his laptop out of spec. These mahciens are only allowed to run in temps up to 35c. I have a 12c head start because of that. So his cooling needs to be extremely optimized to run well enough. Mine isnt that much optimized, as you can see I have a 9c core difference. One of the thermal pads is too thick but I am too lazy to replace them.

 

welp


looks like liquid metal might be worth a try

 

....and omg do i read 43c there, I would just die in those temps. Rather go up north then near @Papusan much more easy to manage temperatures for us humans

 

I read a dead person

 

Yeah 35-43C isn't my preferred ambient temp But moving up here... Some have a wife and daughter who love fire up in the fireplace. Even in the summer although temp is +22 19-20C is okay for my damaged lungs.

 

Maybe it's a problem with several 15R2 SKU? Anyone think about that?

Or maybe not. Check my cousin's test with P95 and Aida64(FPU only) with -140mV undervolt at ambient temp of 32C. Without undervolt, temps easily hit 100C even on this. Stock thermal paste from Original packaging





I imported Grizzly Kryonaut around January, Service center guy cleaned surface but left some old paste outside the die. Then applied Grizzly Kryonaut in Dot method on CPU and GPU. It held 80C with Prime95 for 2 days! Then everything started going south with temps of 95C+.

After motherboard was replaced, I got to know that technician left Dell's junk that comes with new heatsink as is and applied Grizzly Kryonaut on the die Terrible mixup and he also emptied the 1.0g paste. What a waste. Since then temps haven't come below 90C, ever. L3 team says " working as per design"

@Vasudev @Papusan @rinneh My tests I ran in the morning was at 24C ambient temp. Afternoon it gets 35C. Atleast in Bangalore. So, my PC is operating within specs

Conductonaut isn't available in India. Plus Dell will never agree to use LM in their laptop, they prefer their China made junk over LM

Edit: FPU only test at Ambient temp of 21C. Clock speed holding at 3.1GHz permanently. http://i.imgur.com/1QMUKdL.png

Btw, what's wrong with Prime95?

 

prime pulls too much power through the cpu, realistically will never reach that

 

1. 100% sure there is problem with several models. Both 15 and 17. Same as for the first Echo models. Those was never fixed by DELL.


2. Your cousin run only cpu tests. Run both (CPU and GPU tests as you already have done). Remember Unified heatsink!! No load on GPU will give a better cooling headrom for processor.

3. As expeted a big mess. Will never work!!

4. As expeted a big mess. Will never work!!

5. Give a damn in Dell India. If you shall or want keep your AWBook... Hit up either Grizzly Conductonaut - Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra or Phobya Liquid metal. Outsider can be... Coollaboratory Liquid Pro if you have problem hit up the mentioned. Gelid Extreme or Grizzly Kryonaut is next on the list if you haven't other choices. Hit up same time better Thermal pads. Up to yoo. Dell will most likely never fix this MESS!!

But 40-41W Cpu Package power for Unified HS isn't all to much. If the machine can't handle this load... Throw it in the dustbin. Yesterday!!

 

There is only one AC so we use only at night. I can't use PC whilst everyone's sleeping.
@Mobius 1: LM is hard to find in India, even if I import it which is expensive.

 

OP, PM me your service tag

 

Ask nice And save a few bucks on paste(even if it is more expencive) when you trow out 1,5-2 or even +3K on this MESS Save money elsewhere!!

 

Not sure what to expect. The results below are with undervolt of -140mV

1) Temps holding below 80C when I played CSGO for 20 min straight. MUCH MUCH better than before. No throttling as I observed in the game. PCH temps goes to 75C and GPU to 71C. Not sure if CSGO is pressing the system to high usage.

2) ffmpeg encoding holding at 77C

3) Assassins creed Unity, Ultra high settings(fully, totally maxed out, running like crap at 15FPS ) CPU temps holds at 77C. Same GPU and CPU temps as noted above

4) Witcher 3 - 80C max CPU temp and 73C max GPU temp

5) Script I've written for face detection in Video holds below 70C - This is pretty CPU intensive process

6) Visual Studio Compilation of a project runs at 70C, surprising.

Note though no games use 100% CPU. Only ffmpeg, Visual Studio and my script.

Aida64 is stressing CPU and GPU to 100%. I don't seem anything I will ever run will ever require so much horse power. Since Dell is giving me so much headache and now, atleast it's working OKAY after undervolting and not stressing to extreme usage, am I good to close the case with Dell? Or is Aida FPU+GPU the only way to properly ensure everything is normal?

I feel this is much better than what I was using two weeks ago. Throttle Machine

Edit - Ambient Temp 21C(Humidity 81% though)

 

If you get same results as @rinneh in Aida64 with FPU and Gpu checked(like the pict below) + No throttling in games, then you can concider you have a working Dell machine. See above in this post or post #68


See also my comment from my previous posts... Your next job.

"Give a damn in Dell India. If you shall or want keep your AWBook... Hit up either Grizzly Conductonaut - Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra or Phobya Liquid metal. Outsider can be... Coollaboratory Liquid Pro if you have problem hit up the mentioned. Gelid Extreme or Grizzly Kryonaut is next on the list if you haven't other choices. Hit up same time better Thermal pads. Up to yoo. Dell will most likely never fix it any better!!"

 

Aida64 FPU + FurMark = CPU to 100C and GPU to 80C. . With -140mV undervolt. I won't get @rinneh temps because ambient here is 30C

BUT, highly unrealistic scenarios. Furmark hits 96W on a Laptop. Im shocked. Very unrealistic test

 

Who said you should run Furmark? Never touch that virus. Never ever!! You will kill your Gpu.

Compare Apple vs. Apple. Test same stress tests aka Aida64(Cpu+Gpu) and in about same ambient temp(23C). If your results is similar as @rinneh, close the case. But for your own good, change thermal paste. Good luck!!

 

Result is same as I posted before. High temp. But that is unrealistic scenario. Witcher 3 or AC unity also didn't push CPU above 80C

 

@Vasudev ambient temps plays main role in throttling, i live in bangalore, ive been to all other states near by, current ambients around 30-34 here, which causes PCH throttle, the same game i used to play on december where ambients were 19-22.. 0 throttle, so yeah.. either you have to cool ur room and use nice fan curves.. or else experience the throttle.. for paste i tried almost everysingle one, thanks to @sirleeofroy who arranged me a Conductonaut from UK, before that i tested with ICD7, Master Nano Gel with 11Wmk, Artic Silver 5, GC, and last im testing Shintzu or some china brand which dell uses, just for the sake of testing.. Nano Gel u can get it from ITdepot.com.. i suggest try NANO GEL or GC extreme, ICD7 if you dont care about the scratches it leaves on DIE. but these three are really good ones, regarding this case, he need to dissasemble his laptop on his own, buy some nice thermal pads fujipoly, good thermal paste, and get some copper shims.. i have a 980m which dissipates more heat thn a 970m, still my CPU temps are no where near like his ones, so yeah poor contact of heatsink and improper air flow..

 

I have no problem in opening the laptop and repasting myself. I opened a Sony Vaio 2 days ago. It didn't involve any cable removal at all, except fan. Cakewalk

But when it comes to AW, it's so damn complicated. In afraid if I break something, without ADP, it may not be covered under warranty. If it did, I would have opened the laptop by now and applied grizzly kryonaut I had previously imported. Wouldn't have let the service center guys screw up my laptop by mixing old paste and kryonaut

 

if you live in bangalore i can help you out with pasting again, its not that complicated..but if ur worried about warranty, then yes.. you got no choice, for me i really dont care, i like to fix my stuffs on my own.. atleast i ask the technician to hand over the pasting part and fixing heatsink part to me..

 

@VICKYGAMEBOY: The paste I'm using is Master Gel Maker Nano. If room temp. is at 25C or less, CPU temps idles at 27-29C which is very good than Ceramique 2 from Arctic Silver. I applied too much I guess but still the paste is good, good temps during minor OCs.

 

@VICKYGAMEBOY: Can you post your AIDA64 FPU+GPU test results for reference?

 

i was using the same, its good for the price.. but yes its not hard as ICD7, so u need to apply a thin layer on HS as well.. BTW i fixed TPM 2.0 Firmware issue by myself, Dell had my case for 2 months, even after replacements they couldnt solve it, i fixed it myself.. what a crap team they got, all i had to do is, disable secure boot to clear the TPM cache stored on RAM and NVMe drive.. and boot up, and reverted back to FULL secure boot.. now its running like a charm.. cant believe they pay tons to these product development team , and all they do is "we dont know what is the solution", end users keeps finding solutions for them.. im sorry im testing shin etzu chinese paste i guess, its not that good.. ill post the nano thermals soon. .

 

Even I didn't know that.

 

it was complicated to find out.. but anyway hope it can help others, if they ever face such things.. just finished downloading outlast 2, testing. brb

 

@Vasudev @rinneh hey my wifi indicator light is working normal now, was doing repaste, removed the coin cell and did clear the CMOS.. now its working proper..also think the small cable which connects WIFI indicator set and main power button board was kinda loose. may be that could be the reason..

 

Hmm could be that the cable was loose. But all indicator lights are controller by the EC as well so the cmos battery could have fixed it. I did a drain but never disconnected the small coin cell battery so going to try that too.

For you its really a difficult situation to be honest.

Due to the high temperatures and extreme humidity (the laptop is rated up to 35c in low humidity by the way) you already operate out of spec but it seems that your cooling isnt that well optimized as well. I would repaste it for you but its impossible due to the huge distance obviosuly.

The laptop seems hard to disassemble but its not that hard. But there are a few tricks to keep in mind.

First of all have the right tools.

Second, The bottom panel screws cannot be unscrewed fully so only screw them loose abit until you have enough space to pry the plastic up a bit. Probable the screws are still inserted a little bit but then you can unscrew them more safely without damaging the screw holes. But they never come fully loose.

Third, When removing the screen lid. First unscrew the 2 back screws. Then hold the screenlid with one hand and unscrew the 2 screws on each hinge on the inside while holding the lid. When it is fully unscrewed you can pull it up softly and wiggle a little bit to get those plastic clips loose. In this way you minimize the risk of breaking any plastic clip.

Fourth, remove the sd dummy card before removing the motherboard. Also the side of the SD card slot has a small clip above it. So you have to pull the motherboard slightly to the left before pulling it up (1 or 2mm).

Fifth, make sure your PC is cooled down fully. If you pull the heatsink off when its still warm. You risk tearing those thermal pads which become soft when hot/warm.

 

@Papusan Hi, I just read this thread and was curious on using Aida64. Tried what you said in the thread to stress test FPU + GPU and my results in attached here. When I got my Alienware 17 R3 6700hq I have been using OCCT 4.4.2 and Prime95 v.26.6 to stress test my laptop and found no problems. When I play the Witcher 3, Overwatch and Dota 2 my temps barely reaches 80 celcius and haven't experience any Throttling problem. Now I tried Aida64 and found this plus my laptop is out of warranty. Dell tech support offered 350 pounds to extend my warranty for a year and didn't took it as the price was extremely crazy expensive. Another reason I didn't get the warranty as I thought I didn't get a Lemon and my laptop is exceptionally great which is not T_T. Anyways with the results would it mean that this is common for a 6700hq and there's nothing I can do about it? by the way I have already repaste my laptop with Gelid Extreme. What do you think? Thanks..