How to FIX AW17R4/15R3/13R3 CPU Core Temperature Differential Issue

Hi all, i'm starting a new discussion and as the title suggest, this is a place to discuss ways and methods used to fix CPU core differential problem on all new alienware models.

Update 7 OCT 2017
Here's an update on some of the data collection that i've been doing over the past few months. Owner inputs are greatly appreciated. Basically, looking into the heatsink assembly of alienware 17R4 is like opening a can of worms or opening pandora's box. there are so many different heatsink assembly and it's extremely confusing, and we are talking about just the GTX1080 variant. anyway, here are some of the data for reference, sharing, and hopefully finding a better resolution to this ongoing problem. What i've gathered so far can be summarized as below.

Heatsink Part Number
04RFW1 (the most commonly found heatsink and currently shipping) can be made by 2 manufacturers. DP/N ends with A01 revision
CCI - Revision BL-0, BL-1, BL-2
SUNON - Revision S-J-1, S-J-2

0FRPY8 DP/N ends with revision A00 (latest part number)
CCI - Revision BL-2 (less than 5C core temperature diff without OC)
SUNON - Revision ? (over 20C core temperature diff when OC)

0K2PKV DP/N ends with revision A00 (probably the earliest batch heatsinks)
CCI - Revision BL-0



i will try to post some picture depicting the various types of heatsink assemblies but as of now, the only known out of the box with acceptable cpu core temperature differential is 04RFW1 SUNON S-J-2 DP/N Revision A01. The rest are all plauged with massive cpu core temperature difference, irrespective of when you receive your system. Once you OC the CPU, be prepared for over 15-20C temperature difference.

EDIT: Just got a confirmation from @Maineiac12 his CCI BL-2 0FRPY8 is working well without modifications out of the box without OC.
Got another confirmation from @Rei Fukai his 0FRPY8 is Sunon made but has massive 20C core temperature differential problem when OC

Dont bother looking for dell support, they know nothing about the difference in heatsink assembly. they only order by the part number. and dont bother with alienware engineering team. equally useless. wasted 1 month waiting for them to investigate only to tell me that 2 of the CPU core running at 100C is normal because only 2 of the cores are stressed during CPU intensive test like OCCT (seriously??? such a stupid and pathetic feedback from alienware "engineering" team). and they provide me with nothing about the heatsink assembly info.

Dont bother asking for help here also, because unless you are willing to pay for repasting services, the guide to bending and modifying the heatsink is a closely guarded secret by certain repasting people who make lots of money by keeping this close to their chest. the best answer you might get, if you are being entertained at all, is a vauge, rough and unclear answer at best with nothing specific. you want more? PAY

Those who have more data please feel free to share. Take a picture of the heatsink with the DP/N part number, the entire heatsink itself and when did you receive the system. also post your CPU core differential temperature so we can have more data on which is a better heatsink.

Background of the issue.
New system shipped from factory, even as recent as May 2017 are suffering from extreme core differential problem even at stock speed. True the problem is a little bit better now with the Kaby lake models, but it is still there and wide spread. I must say, over 80% of the systems being shipped came with this problem, if not all.

How to detect this issue.
Easy. Run a CPU stress program like OCCT or wPRIME and monitor your CPU temperature. If all 4 CPU cores are within 3-5C degrees (example: 75C, 76C, 74C, 77C), you are one of the very few lucky ones. If 2 of your CPU cores are 10C+ hotter than the other 2 cores (example: 80C, 90C, 82C, 92C), your system is suffering from this issue. note that the core differential problem always come in pairs. Core 0, 2, or Core 1, 3 depending on which area on the CPU die has less contact with the heatsink. The problem is also AMPLIFIED significantly for those who OC their 6820HK/7820HK CPU without undervolt. In the earlier batch of skylake systems, the temperature difference can be over 20C easily!

Cause of the problem.
The heatsink of the CPU is not making proper contact with the CPU die surface. Especially the first half upper region of the CPU. This is due to the heatsink of the CPU resting at an angle (when viewed sideways) on the CPU die surface due to 2 main problems.
1. Poor CPU tripod tension arm design, weakest point at the single arm top part of the CPU. not providing enough pressure to allow the CPU heatsink to sit flush with the CPU die.

2. Thermal pads. use of thermal pads thicker than you should on the power delivery components on top of the CPU raised the heatsink up at the top side and the already weak cpu tension arm does not help at all. the initial skylake models were even worse using thick thermal pads on the larger silver chokes which were rectified later with the very thin white pads. This enhancement was done in part due to iunlock & Team LHz holding discussion with dell engineering team. the CPU core temperature differential reduced from over 20C to 10C.

How to fix the problem.
From what i see around the forum, most people who have successfully fixed this issue are using liquid metal (LM). LM has such high thermal conductivity, by just applying thicker layer on the top half of the cpu, it effectively plugged the gap between the heatsink and cpu die.

For those who use traditional paste like i do, Grizzly kryonaut, it is near impossible to fix this issue easily. even with thermal paste as good as kryonaut, the thermal conductivity is pale in comparison to LM. the only person whom i've seen successfully get even temperatures across all core using traditional paste is iunlock

I have tried many non invasive methods, including
1. changing thermal paste, putting a thicker layer at the top part of the cpu
2. repad the VRM (smaller black chips on top of the larger square silver Chokes) with a thinner 1mm fujipoly pad and leaving the 0.1mm white thermal pads on the silver chokes from factory.
3. tried different screw combination (the heatsink screws are labeled 1,2,3 which indicates which screw you should tighten first).
4. pressing the heatsink against the CPU when fastening the scews
5. bending the tripod top tension arm as iunlock suggested

Basically, NON of the above method works. to date, i have possibly done repad and repaste more than 10 times combined with 6820HK and 7820HK AW17R4. to date i have not been able to reduce core differential to less than 10C.

Things yet to try
1. Mobius 1 suggested to replace the 0.1mm white thermal pad from factory with actual thermal paste for an even thinner contact to reduce the gap between the cpu and heatsink.
2. invasive methods like sand paper the heatsink, using mallet to knock the heatsink copper, etc.

Those who have this issue, or those who are able to fix this issue, please share and discuss over here. and note that NOT all heatsink are created equal, but it's a good point of reference.

 

Even ambient roo temperature is key factor in determining the CPU temps, I guess your room temp is <40C.

 

Actually im in an fully air conditoned room, temperature is kept at 22-23C.

 

Some experiments are currently undergoing on P4G forum :

• A retention mod 2.0 for both CPU and GPU where you need to remove the glued motherboard's retention bracket.
• A passthrough mod where you enlarge the north arms' holes enough to passthrough the inserts and add washers in order to increase pressure.

 

wow! can you provide a link for that? thanks

 

It's still a bit early, there isn't any tutorial yet... And it's a french forum.
http://portables4gamers.com/forum/topic/27696-reviewblacksad-alienware-17r4-2016/page-10#entry791979

Here's a mockup (photomanipulated) of the passtrough mod :


You add the whasher in the orange zone. But it's a definitive mod.

 

looks like something worth trying it out. shouldn't the washer be placed on top of the red zone to increase the height of the tension arm?

correct me if i'm mistaken but placing it at the orange zone only add a gap between the arm and the screw, which doesn't do anything?

 

Nope, the screw won't go down, but adding washer between the screw head and the arm will push the arm lower than the screw through the insert and increase pressure on the heatsink.

 

wow! that's a risky task. how's the result? does it help reduce the cpu core temperature differential issue?

and how do you enlarge the screw hole on the tension arm?

 

With professional precision tools, milling machine.
Ghetto style may be possible with Dremel tool, but hasn't been tested yet.

Edit : The result is -10°C on the hotest core.

 

-10C on the hottest core is enough to fix the cpu core differential issue. so by applying more pressure on the top tension arm, the heatsink can sit flush with the cpu die.

another question, did u change the thermal pads covering the VRM and chokes on top of the CPU?

 

too much pressure on the edge can mean negative pressure on the die

 

Of course, but considering the lack of pressure on this side + the fact this arm isn't reinforced like the other two with rigid arms, the pivot point isn't gonna move on the edge unless this arm touches the motherboard.

@alexnvidia : BTW, the North two arms of the GPU need to be modded too, not only the CPU's one.

 

but the GPU temps are great, why would you need to mod the top 2 GPU tension arms too? do they affect the CPU as well?

 

Yes, GPU and CPU share the same heatsink. GPU is larger and perfectly flat so uneven pressure doesn't affect it as much as the CPU.

 

Bump this thread for @Papusan & @iunlock

 

Those issues are still not fixed ??

Please refresh my memory, they first changed the 0.5mm thermal pads on the chokes to a 0.1mm white thermal pad right ? I thought that fixed it...maybe some unit have some manufacturing defect rather than design defect right now ?

They have now revised the heatsink ? or the A01 is just the 0.1mm thermal pads replacement ?

 

unfortunately no. they did reduce the core temperature differential by using a thinner 0.1mm white thermal pads on the chokes (used to be over 20C temperature difference), but still, the top part of the CPU has poor contact with the heatsink, something you dont even need pressure paper to see. and majority of the laptops sold came with this problem.

that's not to say the thermal performance is bad. it's just not great. even with a repaste, if you OC and dont undervolt, the hottest cores will reach low 90s while the coolest cores will be at low 80s. quite a significant difference

 

Ok that's a shame ! I received one of the first units, whilst the differential was, for me, a past CLEVO owner catastrophic -12°C, it is now -5°C, i repasted using IC diamond (it's really viscuous and can help even if it doesn't have a very good conductivity), and I don't even have 0.1mm...I have 0.5 or 1 mm ! I think there are twisted, defective heatsinks out there, make sure that the screws are secured using a high torque screwdriver.

Now I'm doing my usual 6-month maintenance and will probably repaste with conductonaut and use 0.1mm pads. Thing is I hope i don't break the good differential I have ^^, but dust builds up and the thermal paste is probably beginning to dry (the laptop is used A LOT).

One of the most important point in heatsink design is to make sure that the pressure is homogenous, come on AW !!


edit : I'm thinking of using K5-pro (special thermal paste for pads) in place of the 0.1mm pads, that might help no ?

 

Maybe you should make a statistic of (newly build laptops) with TRIPOD MESS in OP? Here's a new ONE

 

Is there a way i can add a voting option to this existing thread?

 

You can use the threads tools as in my pict to add a POLL(see my op in the thread). Just do it properly first time. I don't remember if you can edit everything afterwards.

 

Pool added as per @Papusan suggestion. thanks!

 

This poll is almost the same as in the Uneven core thread.
You should make it with some extra. More like... Max processor temp(put up different temp values) and purchased after lets say 1. March. Then same question but purchased before 1. March.
As you know, Some claims that the TRIPOD mess is fixed by Dell.

 

There are several different assembly lines.

There are several different revisions and 2 different heat sinks. SUNON and CCI

Sunon is the good one.

Yes you want to adjust the gpu arms to.

With CCI heat sinks you need more work.

Not all units are created equal.

I'm trying to confirm some information right now as to what units come from what assembly line. (ie... Which units the big block stores receive etc...)

I have more of the newer units arriving this coming week so I'll have more data of the "latest units."

Of course these are mostly US units... But I do have a few international units as well in the mix.



::iunlock::

 

After my repading / repasting with LM, I have NO difference in core temps anymore (1° diff). Iddling at 37-38° in a 26-27°room.

Mine was produced during / just after the revision (with the 0.1mm pad). The CPU arm is bent a little.
My concern is the PCH, which is hot as hell while gaming (+80°) but since my clean install of win10 and BIOS 1.0.9 it doesn't throttle anymore.

 

I have both CCI in my 6820HK unit and 7820HK. the CCI heatsink in 7820HK is revision A01. both suffered from over 10C cpu core differential issue. Both came with the white 0.1mm pads for the CPU chokes.

Mind to elaborate more on adjusting the GPU arm to fix the CPU core temperature differential issue?

 

Could you please tell me where to check which heatsink I've got?

Thanks

 

In Pete's Topic :
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...sting-with-liquid-metal-my-experience.799962/

Fans are SUNON :



and the heatsink is CCI (GPU block's lower right corner next to the RAM modules)

 

I have personally never seen a Sunon heatsink, so it will be interesting to see what @iunlock has to show us. Both my units are CCI heatsink paired with Sunon fans. It's easy to check and you dont need to disassemble the entire laptop. As shown by @leeloyd , the CCI logo is stamped into the heatsink at GPU lower right (right side of tension arm no.6). If you would like to check the heatsink revision, it's printed on a small square white sticker above the CPU.

 

@iunlock: can you provide a part number to order the sunon heatsink?

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Looks like, my new AW15 needs a repaste...or are these numbers decent?

http://imgur.com/a/Bw5tw

 

you have cpu core differential problem as well, and seeing that it's brand new laptop, this problem is still widespread at factory level.

there's about 10C difference when you are running stock, but if you OC it will be even higher. you can repaste, it can lower the temperature considerably, but dont expect the cpu core differential problem to magically go away unless u put some work into the heatsink. not sure about the 15, but if you have a 17, don't bother bending the tension arm on top of the cpu. it's a complete waste of time and effort that yields no improvement.

 

both of my 7820 1080 came with the Sunon heatsink, 1 was made on March 1 was made in May, no CPU core differential on neither, within 1C, looks exactly same as your CCI maybe the copper surface is better machined?

the part # is 04RFW1 which is same as CCI but the model number is AT1QB009ZS0

 

U lucky bxstxrd! Lol

 

Would you mind taking a picture?

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Hello

I bought the AW 17R4 last month and found that the temperature difference is more than 10 degrees. Is there a solution?

 

How do I know if a heat sink revision is available?

 

How can I distinguish between sunon heatsink and CCI? And can we buy sunon heatsink?

 

So far I could only find CCI on aliexpress or eBay, i think dell is switching to SUNON and the overstock CCI are flowing the market.

 

Is there Sunon heatsink for 15R3 too ? Or are they doomed with CCI's

 

How can I buy SUNON heatsink?

1070 is used.

 

just call Dell saying you have overheating issue and want a new heatsink and specify for the SUNON

 

Does the new alienware 15 come with the sunon heatsink only? So the cpu core differencial temp issue is fixed for now?

 

I called dell, but they say they do not have a sunon heatsink.

 

I just want to submit my contribution to this thread. Service tag information on Dell's website says my ship date was 5 May 2017, and I bought my 17 R4 7700HQ/1070/QHD G-Sync from Best Buy. My wife has one as well. I had bad core temp differentials out the box ~13 C, but my wife's is okay ~5 C differential. I have since repasted my system with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut, bent the heat sink arm, and replaced the thermal pads with Fujipoly, as per iunlock's guide. I will say that I did attempt repaste with AS5, but my differentials INCREASED to >20 C with higher overall temps into the 90s on cores 0 and 2. There was enough paste (and I've pasted plenty of desktops and laptops before), but maybe I didn't bend the heat sink arm enough.

Before (including power limit throttling):











After (with -150mV undervolt, no more power limit throttling, and I decided to start documenting with screen shots):







I just hope my LM repaste doesn't have to be taken apart again. This is one of those things like replacing a timing belt... I like knowing that I can do it, and I will if I have to, but it's not my idea of "fun".

 

By the way, I have a SUNON heatsink, so it is not entirely the end of core temp differential problems.

 

Don't bother with arm bending. it does not work at all

 

But it did...?

 

it's most likely due to the use of LM. LM has 7x the thermal conductivity of traditional paste which even with gap, should seal it up nicely and allow heat to transfer quickly.