Hi Khan,
I am going to repeat some of the stuff I mentioned in the other post, which I referred to above as "ignored" by you and others as it was never quoted or addressed. But knowing that you read it is good. So, thanks for letting me know.
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Anyway, I'd definitely appreciate if you would be able to find out why my review was removed. If it did not meet requirements, why was it published in the first place? Something fishy is going on there. As of right now, I'm not too worried about it being erased, it just seems whomever is handling the reviews has no conscious whatsoever. It's a bit upsetting to spend a good 10-15 minutes writing something up, and then having it erased after a day or so. They specifically removed mine while there are other (somewhat worse) negative reviews. Mine was objective and was written with good intent and honesty backed by actual experience.
As for the videos, reviews, benchmarks not being manipulated: Sure, the results may not be manipulated, but the context for which they're presented is very much so, lol. They are misleading. By misleading, I mean, for example, in one video, the entire introduction is geared toward a "beast" system, and it is mentioned that you can play at 60+ FPS on the 4k screen. It says you don't have to compromise on performance, which is also a lie/misleading (because of the power limitations with the PSU and the 4k screen in itself acting as a limitation without the G/A). And to top it off, the video goes on to say that you can game at 60+ FPS at 4k. At this point, customers are being forced to purchase the Graphics Amplifier.
I don't know. It just seems like you guys aren't focusing enough on the laptop(s), but more so on the Amplifier. Alienware is restricting performance enough to make the Amplifier profitable, which is ridiculous. The Amplifier should not be necessary to enjoy your already expensive laptop. The laptops themselves should be unleashed and the most powerful on the market. The Alienware 18 (if there were an R2) with 980M SLI would outperform a single GTX 980 in most games - please explain to me how it makes any sense to step backwards? You could be selling the MOST powerful 18" gaming notebook in the world right now, but instead you're selling some Graphics Amplifier that doesn't even work as expected (not yet, at least).
What happened to, "The most powerful laptop in the Universe!" - last year, this was the motto and it was true. This is Alienware still, right? When you hear Alienware, you don't think "compromised performance." At least you didn't used to... When I joined this forum back in 2012, Alienware was the best. Now, I don't know what it is. Just another gaming laptop with a unique style?
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or anything. If that's how I am coming across, I apologize in advance. It's more like I am a loyal customer confused and stuck in some nightmare and can't wake up.
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Aw is dead as a performance provider. It's all about power saving and eco-correctness. -
I edited my post above. XenForo is acting up, and it's so annoying. I can't even write a proper post, lol.
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The irony is that the Alienware 17 was going to be my very first Alienware model purchase and more to come in the future. Never before had an Alienware model convinced me to take a chance on a non Clevo. That was until I discovered the soldered components.
Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned a Clevo model they were going to buy instead, anyone remember which one that was. Does anyone know what the Clevo model name is for the Pcspecialist Octane 17.3?
It's the one that used the Desktop Processors. If I get a new laptop, this will be my Alienware 17 alternative. Goodbye Alienware. Any other recommendations for good Alienware 17 (2015) alternatives (no solder please). -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
That was how I felt when I got my R3. Then the R4, still sweet, then the AW range (R1) hit and I could see the writing on the wall. They are the last of a breed and need protecting.
Good luck in your search. I have one user of a clevo telling me this machine is good.
NP9377SM-A. Tells me it kicks the R2 stats but runs a little warmer. Not advice, just what I heard today -
The NP9377SM-A is the same model I was considering and the answer to the question of my previous post about the Pcspecialist 17.3 Octane Clevo equivalent (in terms of model name). I will definitely go for that if the laptop in my sig doesn't handle GTA 5 well enough.MickyD1234 likes this. -
As for the gaming at 4k without the Graphics AMP, I will work to show that in some upcoming YouTube videos.
I don't think you're being a jerk at all.
I've owned many products and played many games that I've felt changed direction on me and I had a lot of issue with that. I would also go on forums and tell the developers and manufacturers that I thought they were wrong.
But here I am, still playing World of Warcraft.
I get where you're coming from. This generation of notebook products doesn't satisfy you and a group of others.
The amplifier was a solution towards the industry's move to BGA. We didn't think "Oh! BGA!" *rubs hands together and greedily chuckles* "Let's really mess with people and push another product that they absolutely must have and make us oodles and oodles of money! BWHAHAHAHA!" *money fight begins in conference room*
The industry is moving to BGA. Other manufacturers are going to do it. Let's see if there is going to be wide spread offerings of the same solution as we have. Instead of getting a soldered motherboard with a set graphics card and no way out beyond that, we've created a solution for you to keep upgrading your notebook's graphic's performance. It's the solution we've made to circumvent BGA.
But I know what you're going to say.
"Khan! You stupid beautiful fool! We hate and love you all at once! Bring back AW 18 with MXM! This hippy, restricted, nonsense doesn't meet my needs."
Give me time to get you an answer for that. If you want to wait for the answer, do so. If you don't, that's fine, too! The answer will be here on NBR when I have it and you can check back here, like a scorned ex-lover stalking my Facebook page, and see what that answer is.MickyD1234, Papusan and bnosam like this. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
But as you imply, I am not on AW's target market anymore, though with this implementation of the technology, just because it's BGA, does not excuse AW going for a hybrid. That's a whole different market, and maybe their decision will produce results, it just needs better marketing to that audience.
My initial decision to not go with the competition with MXM was that I doubt there will be any new cards in the future. Now I'm not so sure. Hopefully there are enough of us enthusiasts to make a niche market a reality.
If socketed desktop CPU's & GPU's were to be discontinued that market would probably do a little more than roll their eyes and make a facebook statement! Interesting times.
I'll be watching from the outside and wish you luck, the X8 stomps all current gaming mlaptops into the dirt. As soon as (if ever) I get my cancellation request acknowledged my order goes in. Dell again delay me getting a new machine...Last edited: Feb 11, 2015TBoneSan likes this. -
Even if the industry was moving to BGA, it still does not make sense to buy a laptop in 2015 that has soldered coponents when there are others that give you the option of upgrading in the future i.e standard Mxm slots.
If in the future the switch to BGA was occuring more and there were no more new Mxm GPU's planned then I could see that being a reason to buy a BGA form. As it stands, your closest competitors give the user more potential future options, not to mention not having to send an entire laptop in for repair if a component failed. The most likely component to fail is the GPU.
Another point to consider is that external GPU's already exist in many forms and if there was a move to BGA, then more companies would make those, the existing ones would be improved and they would likely be smaller than the Amplifier.
I think a graphic amplifier idea could be to use multiple mobile GPU's as well. Even without the BGA farce, many of your previous Alienware models have more features and flexibility than your newest (2015) version and that is inexcusable.
I think I heard Asus has switched to BGA? Is this correct? any others?MickyD1234 likes this. -
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steviejones133 Notebook Nobel Laureate
It's Intel and Nvidia that seem to be pushing BGA down OEM's throats - the move away from socketed CPU's and GPU's is more so down to them than the likes of Dell and oether OEM's. If Intel, for example, are only going to provide BGA laptop CPU's from now on, there's nothing that Dell or any other OEM can really do about it. As for Nvidia, and possibly even AMD, their production of MXM cards will likely tail off along side Intel's plans to monopolise and dictate everything we can buy.
Personally, I don't hold out much hope that MXM will be around in 12-24mths. I certainly do no think that Intel will decide to start pumping out socketed mobile CPU's - even if OEM's tackled them about it stating that their customer base is crying out for them. Yes, we as enthusiasts want sockets for BOTH, but we are in the minority of the market in reality. We make up a very small percentage. If Intel and Nvidia are reducing production costs by going BGA, you can bet your butt that they won't change their tactics for the minority. They'll wrap it up nicely as "saving the planet" but the bottom line is profit.....lower overheads = more profit, especially if you can force it down OEM's throats like Intel are doing with ease.
Which kinda leads us on to the following question........"if you buy a socketed machine NOW, what are you gonna upgrade it with when there is nothing being manufactured to do so?"MickyD1234 likes this. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
So, what do I do? I looked around without any consideration to BGA/sockets for the best gaming machine I could buy today - found it, the Eurocom X8 (clevo based). The performance is so far out-there that I cannot believe it won't chew up the latest games in two years time. By that time I will know where the industry has moved and I still hope that there are enough of us 'real' enthusiasts in the world to support a niche industry.
The kicker in the next year or so is, will a 10xx NV come out in MXM? There is a factory somewhere that is tooled up, just needs enough customers to make it profitable. Don't forget, Intel already crippled the video OEM's with their integrated graphics. The volume of 'm' chips plummeted to zero at the low and mid-range market!
Interesting times.steviejones133 likes this. -
steviejones133 Notebook Nobel Laureate
That X8 looks mighty powerful! ....... you got me tempted, Micky
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Edit: Just to keep it on-topic, there was a time I felt like that about the M18x sobLast edited: Feb 8, 2015steviejones133 likes this. -
Agreed, Its also known as the Sager NP9377 / Clevo P377SM-A. I only know about that model due to the Alienware 17 (2015).
Its a shame because I love the design of that laptop. If the industry is switching to BGA, why would I be one of the first adopters unless I had absolutely no choice?Why would you as an enthusiast be one?
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steviejones133 Notebook Nobel Laureate
Dell really need to release a 17 inch monster to compete. They could call it the "Extreme 17" to set it apart from the current new 17. I hear what they are saying about 18.4" panel availability, but there is no excuse for them to NOT toss something out "beastly" in the 17" market, especially as it's certainly available elsewhere. Talk about going "about face" on being kings of performance.....TBoneSan likes this. -
Of course if there were no ther choices then that would be an entirely different game. Thats what it comes down to really. What is the benefit of being an adopter of the BGA form if there are still Mxm around?MickyD1234 likes this. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Well, I won't go over all the old ground again but I'm off to an enthusiast builder...LaptopNut likes this. -
I know this forum is very high on Google return searches though. I draw your attention to this sentence from the Sager NP9377 / Clevo P377SM-A review.
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
I saw that review and a few others, apparently it can walk on water and revive the dead - they like it, A LOT! Now if only I could get dell to ack my cancelation request I can spend my money on this awesome machine. Maybe I should ask them to pay the expedited shipping since the delays are their fault now! -
Have a look at this. In the ''Ask Alienware's General Manager, Frank Azor, Anything!'' someone questioned them about the BGA. Here is some of what they said so you can easily locate the post.
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Quick opinion from someone who bought the msi gs30 after long consideration vs the aw 13/15.
After reading about fit and finish issues with aw13, compatibility problems with the graphics amplifier, cpu bottleneck, pcie bottleneck with ga, and now the latest issue I've seen on aw15 screen ghosting - if you are looking for a similar concept and can handle on the go gaming to be a hit weaker (league at medium high 60fps - and yes i know league isnt demanding) then I'd strongly suggest the gs30!
The gs30 has beautiful fit and finish, very nice screen, great keyboard / trackpad for a 13 inch laptop, strong cpu with full pci x16, benchmarks that go toe to toe and even beat desktop reference http://m.hexus.net/tech/reviews/laptop/79397-msi-gs30-shadow-gamingdock/ (check benchmarks for yourself) and best of all it just plain works as it is supposed to.
I talked about it in the review i posted on here in msi forum - but here was what it took to get my gs30 hooked up with full desktop gtx970.
Opened side of dock, installed gpu with 1 screw and power cables, docked laptop, updated driver from nvidia - done - worked flawlessly - disconnect computer - no need to delete or reinstall drivers etc. No blue screens. Its a beautiful solution for anyone that can get by without crazy gaming performance on the go ( for me its perfect for schoolwork and when i get home its a beast of a machine).
Just hope to spread some info for some that may not have heard of this computer - or hopefully help out a fellow gamer on here in need of a good solution - the msi gs30 is a quality (albeit expensive) choice for your hard earned money.MickyD1234 likes this. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
I'll try to do some comparative reviews (see sig) when my new beast arrives. If I can keep it to quality, build and performance, and not get into all the prop-head features it should be readable .
A bit expensive, but so was alienware in the past... -
By the time you configure the extra ram, ssds, graphics amp and card the prices were very close - aw still had a discrete gpu but the gs30 had a better cpu (and faster pcie)
Im a pc enthusiast though and would enjoy reading what you come up with -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
I came here from desktop building, so I am learning the limitations.steviejones133 likes this. -
Hopefully you'll do a review.steviejones133 likes this. -
steviejones133 Notebook Nobel Laureate
I think I might be jumping on an X8, too.......looking forward to your review, Micky.
Keith and MickyD1234 like this. -
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Thanks for the encouragement guys, I'll try to put something together of a decent quality since it's prompted so much interest. I'm expecting it to arrive by the end of next week, ooo, I'm getting excited
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You'll love it Micky. I'm glad you decided to go with one. I've had mine for a few weeks now. Very happy with it.
MickyD1234 likes this. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Keith likes this. -
i cant believe they took away Raid 0 ability from the ssd on the new Alienware line.... isnt this supposed to be a gaming laptop?? embarrassing
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Btw - found a benchmark of aw13 with a gtx980 - scored 6400 in firestrike
Here is my benchmark of my gs30 with just a gtx970 in it.
FUTUREMARK3DMARKPCMARKHARDWARE
Logged in MY RESULTS
FIRE STRIKE
VALID RESULT
SCORE 10345 with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970(1x) and Intel Core i7-4870HQ Processor
Graphics Score12756
Physics Score9128
Combined Score4667
SHOW RESULT DETAILS
RUN DETAILS
Hide resultDelete resultView benchmark run
HOW DOES THIS FIRE STRIKE SCORE COMPARE?
Better than 93% of all results
200040006000800010000120001400016000Score
Percentage of results per score.
This score
10345
High End Gaming PC
9131
Gaming laptop
3364
Ultralight notebook
706
Office PC
520
GRAPHICS CARD
Graphics CardNVIDIA GeForce GTX 970VendorMicro-Star International Co ., Ltd.# of cards1SLI / CrossFireOffMemory4,096 MBCore clock1,285 MHzMemory bus clock1,810 MHzDriver nameNVIDIA GeForce GTX 970Driver version9.18.13.4725
PROCESSOR
ProcessorIntel Core i7-4870HQ ProcessorReported stock core clock2,500 MHzMaximum turbo core clock3,591 MHzPhysical / logical processors1 / 8# of cores4PackageBGA1364Manufacturing process22 nmTDP47 W
GENERAL
Operating system64-bit Windows 8.1 (6.3.9600)MotherboardMicro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-13F1Memory16,384 MBModule 18,192 MB Hyundai Electronics DDR3 @ 800 MHzModule 28,192 MB Hyundai Electronics DDR3 @ 800 MHzHard drive model256 GB Intel Raid 0 Volume
Time to work on tuning overclock -
As always I won't be popular for posting an inconvenient truth, but I think the poll is a bit pointless the way it's posed. The options for selection are too limited like "I like the idea of the Graphics Accelerator" etc, not to mention posting a poll like this on an enthusiast forum. Then of course there is the less-than-objective language like "Dell you suck big-time" styling and leading survey questions designed to get people to agree with a clear bias in the poll. The other problem is just how many Alienware haters will line up at the door just to trash the name, and given the frequent lurkers that post their favorite recent purchases as alternatives (wonder why they don't do that in every other manufacturer's forum hmmm) I suspect the last category is stocked with such posters which skews the results more than a little.
The real kicker though are the last two, which combine to a "not going to buy Alienware" broken into two categories, particularly the one for being put off by BGA; there should be a buy option that says "I am put off by BGA but am aware enough to understand this is the future" for instance.
I realize it's a tongue-in-cheek poll designed to spur talk here rather than a real survey of the market, but it really doesn't mean much in the reality of what the broad market response actually is lest anyone be confused about the real value of such a pollLast edited: Feb 11, 2015 -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
@Docsteel.
I like to think readers here are smart enough, like you, to see it's just a troll type survey. designed to provoke a response. In that respect it is good.
If a user wants to jump in and cry 'foul' then they are very welcome - honestly, I'd like to hear some news -
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
This was started before anyone had received one. -
steviejones133 Notebook Nobel Laureate
Guys,
The poll was meant to catch a snapshot of public opinion HERE on NBR. Of course it won't encapsulate the entire market because the entire market does not come to talk about Alienware within these boards. From that respect, it is fair to say that the poll represents more of an 'enthusiasts opinion' as opposed to the big picture. I gave 5 options that were ambiguous, but aimed to catch a general impression of "love 'em or hate 'em" - for instance, the top option was for those who "strongly liked" and the bottom one was aimed at "strongly dislike" - it doesn't matter if the latter option included a sentiment of "Dell, you suck" because for those who voted that way, it represented their opinion on the new line up........I'd also point out that the top option clearly had the opposing sentiment of "Bring it on, Alienware"
As for the other options, the middle one is fairly obvious, and the other two included an element of "like or dislike" either way - regardless of wether it was related to BGA or the GA. The point of those other options was to simply add an "undecided" element to the poll.
Of course, the poll results are open for anyone to interpret the way they want to - I think that most people with a modicum of intelligence can clearly see how things panned out in relation to a general consensus of the people on these NBR boards.
The poll was not designed to be scientific.....no need for anyone to start dissecting the logic or reason behind it - it was just a bit of fun, y'know?Robbo99999 likes this. -
Now - based on the fact that aw fully equipped is relatively close in price to the msi one i ended up buying - and thus far seems gigantically leaps and bounds better in terms of operation and performance - should i just leave fellow enthusiasts and gamers in the dark - no - that's why im part of of this community in the first place.
Blindly being loyal to a brand that is pretty much really off track with their latest releases is honestly being kind of similar to what you accuse people of in this topic.
My point with this post is not to make accusations and such. Knowledge is power and we have a common interest - lets share it and enjoy it! And help each other from spending our hard earned money on inferior products. Just my 2 cents cheersMickyD1234 likes this. -
As for educating fellow enthusiasts and gamers (of which I would put myself, though not to as great an extreme as some here), I think we have pretty well hashed out the deficits of the AW 13 as it is currently designed. I think the key is that it's fine to contribute, it's sometimes the way you do that makes it good or bad. I suspect many who opted for other systems in the same space would consider your purchase poor based on their relative valuation of "the total package". Personally, I can't abide MSI due to their clear willingness to compromise on aspects of their ultra-thin designs simply to move hardware to the unwary but that is my opinion; I see little value marching into the MSI threads and posting because I'm preaching to a different choir. What you deem an "inferior product" shows a personal valuation stance as opposed to simply pointing out relative differences. We could all traipse from forum to forum touting how this or that system "beat" another simply to justify a personal purchase decision based on some criteria we favor but what does that really accomplish? I guess you can write it off as merely sharing of personal experience, but to be taken more seriously in the process you need to consider your audience a bit more, we also read about the other brands to compare - merely quoting specs and price will generally not earn your comparisons much respect. -
Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet
Papusan, steviejones133 and MickyD1234 like this. -
So while some may see msi as trying to be trendy and less concentrated on performance - id say they are worth a more detailed look - alot of the grips people have with aw - msi happens to offer solutions. Socketed cpu sli gpus in a monstrous case - thats what people wished for in the 2015 aw18 - instead alienware removed it.
Sounds to me like they listen to their customers pretty poorly and if i might add - may be aw is the company thatmay be profiteering from the "trends" as opposed to focusing on performance.
To each their own - but i wont back down on shedding light on a bad purchase vs a good one - especially in a thread asking for said opinion (after all this would be where most people trying to make an educated decision would read) so no its purpose is not to start a flamewar - its purpose is to deter people from spending money on an in fact on paper and in consumer experience - clearly inferior product. I mean if benchmarks dont count, then what about design flaws, fit and finish issues. If none of these factor into what makes a superior design than what does? Fanaticism? Benchmarks and customer reviews, pictures, problems stated are facts (assuming the reviewer isnt lying). I guess we could just play pretend ignore them and give dell our money. If we dont give them our money this time though they may be more likely to put out a better product next time - its elastic - simple economics.
Also - i mentioned i had a review posted - so if someone wanted to take the time all they had to do was go to msi subforum on here and check it out. What did you want me to do post my review in the middle of this thread? Cheers and on a end note- by all means buy what makes you happy and play on! What does matter most is what YOU like best - so thats where one should put their money.MickyD1234 likes this. -
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And honestly - the install and operation with dock/desktop gpu couldnt be easier. It was a matter of installing driver for gpu and now it literally docks and undocks (i think this is because it has no dedicated gpu on the laptop itself so it avoids driver confusion) The pc must be turned off before removing or installing to dock - so you could say thats an "issues" except the boot time is so fast on this thing it doesnt bother me - maybe that will bother others.
So far after about 2 weeks with the device i can honestly tell you ive had no glitches or issues - it just works and its a beast. In other words - its where i would tell a friend to put his money if his computing needs were similar to mine. -
MSI is "listening" but is it giving many technically ignorant customers the best product, or what just sells the best to the unwary who are buying on fashion? The SLI is a point I agree on and have consistently stated elsewhere many times - I think AW will come to regret that decision, but that alone doesn't make up for their other practices in my eyes.
As to AW profiteering that is hard to justify as they could easily have made thin notebooks designed to burn out quick like MSI.... no challenge in that space, plenty are doing it because customers are ignorant of what they are getting. I would say Alienware under Dell has in fact been too careful on the question of cooling and power to the point of not being competitive in the industry... hardly a profiteering position.
No one expects you to "back down", but you leave out other factors such as longevity of the system, effective warranty coverage (which is vitally important for those who use their systems for more than play) and the relative sound levels of the systems for instance that others put a greater premium on. My biggest point was where and what conditions you posted, I still say your comparo would get more readers AND be taken more seriously in a thread of it's own.
I also agree that the G/A is green as hell, no denying that. I think it's a good idea but not one that is ready and certainly not up to snuff yet. -
From what i understand the gs60s with the 860m were having heat issues - but i believe the 860m runs very hot - the new chips 970m etc are running much cooler - people have reported very nice temps.
Ive seen my cpu hit 80° on high performance max load playing at 3k res. 80° is stable but i dont like taxing anything for long periods of time so i have set mine to stay under 75° and have seen no real performance deficit from that. Even at 80° i cant see the cpu burning out prematurely but maybe im wrong. (having no discrete gpu in the laptop itself helps keep temps down under load
You are right in aw playing it conservative and most likely due to the heat tendencies of the 860m - which aw did manage to keep running cooler than msi - props to aw on that.
Yea the g/a - it seems aw made the consumer the test dummies as clearly based on all the driver issues people are having it was not ready for release - even the "fix" driver doesnt seem to be a silver bullet. That and the bottlenecked pcie x4 which combined with the processor is proving to kind of a be a waste of 300-500$ for a good gpu plus price of the ga.
They end up scoring in a range that a dedicated mobile gpu could quite easily attain. -
Oh the fan is a pretty decent volume on my docking station - so much so that i cant hear the gtx970 at all.
Some people may not like that noise - so i suggested putting dock on a base under desk or to side - would likely be enough distance to make noise levels much more tolerable. -
Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet
Review out for Alienware 15 R2 at notebookcheck.net:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Alienware-15-Notebook.135851.0.html
This review was the i7 CPU and 970M version, along with external Graphics Amplifier review. Various 3DMark scores lower than competitors with same graphics card and CPU. Also the performance of the Graphics Amplifier with GTX 980 was lower than a desktop system with GTX 980, notebookcheck pointed this difference at being due to the reduced PCIe bandwidth, being only PCIe-x4 - of course it's normally PCIe-x16 in desktop systems and internally connected notebook GPUs, and MSI's Graphics Amplifier manages PCIe-x16, this a significant oversight from Dell I think. Other than that the notebook gave a good impression in the review.
I'm surprised the A15 scored lower than other comparable systems in benchmarks, because I would have thought the 180W power supply would have been enough for an i7 and the 'power sipping' 970M. We obviously know the same is not true for the i7 and 980M combo, but perhaps the low scores show that the 180W is not even enough for the 970M! Combined scores in tests where both the CPU and GPU were stressed at the same time were low - in 3DMark11.Last edited: Feb 12, 2015 -
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Im impressed with what its able to do with the 970m though - not bad. It also seems the processor refresh has done some good - still on the painful side to shell out 540$ for a 980 and have it restricted though (though again this new processor is an improvement)
Cast your vote or opinion on the new Alienware 2015 model line up!!
Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by steviejones133, Jan 21, 2015.