BGA only??, is it true?

So i'm being offered an alienware 17 r3 as a replacement for my m17 r4 2012 model by dell.

And after looking around i've been reading about all these BGA (permanently soldered) CPUs and GPUs and how they completely suck performance wise.

Is it true that both are soldered or just one of them?, and does the soldering affect the performance of either or is it just a "no more upgrading" issue??

 

You just cant upgrade. Some say the performance is **** but that is highly. but then I mean highly overstated. It is a tradeoff ALienware made to create thinner devices in general and create more space for the battery.

The Alienware 18 does offer upgrade options though.

 

It's a take it or leave it offer for me, so there really is no wiggle room.

 

BGA processor = throttle like heck.... avoid them like the plague

 

no they dont. only poorly cooled ones. Just as a poorly non BGA cpu.

 

Nonsense.

 

the only nonesense here is you!

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-15-cpu-throttling-bug.775393/

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/why-is-my-alienware-15-cpu-throttling-to-800-mhz.777144/

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-980m-240w-psu-bios-a00.777487/#post-10027947

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-15-r2-cpu-throttle-fix.783371/#post-10124954

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...fore-saying-bye-to-dell.781504/#post-10091061

 

All current Alienware laptops excluding the Alienware 18 are soldered GPU and soldered CPU. The throttling comes from a variety of sources including insufficient power adapters, thermal throttling, and other sources. I have a Alienware 17 R2 and it is complete and total junk when compared to its older brother, the M17x R4. I was really disappointed with it.

 

If you want to upgrade your cpu/gpu then I guess you would consider it junk. I dont think there is a big enough sample out on the Skylake BGA's to say that they are junk. For every bad example I'm sure somebody can find a good example to counteract, but we all know people only post on the internet to complain and rarely to praise. I'll be playing a bunch of Battlefront when it comes out in 2 weeks and if there are issues with throttling I'll be the first to say it but I'm not expecting it.

 

I'm not referring to the CPU being junk per say, but the overall delivery of the system in the Alienware 17 R2/R3 in comparison to its previous iterations has been junk. Overall, there has been a decrease in features, build quality, and serviceability.

 

Ok, I can agree with you there.

 

Ask for an Alienware 18 with 970M SLI.

The only way I'd take a new Alienware 17 is if you plan to sell it without ever using it. Hell, I'd probably find a buyer first.

They are offering you an inferior machine. Period.

 

Inferior in terms of performance or serviceability or quality or all the previous?

 

Nearly none with the newest BGA CRAP will bench test their new Bga toy. Why ??? Because everyone knows what the results will become. BGA processors will newer function like socket processors. NEWER. PERIOD. http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ig-i-mean-testers.782689/page-8#post-10120840
CMon. Start up your new BGA turd and do some serious testing. Use the link ^^^ @D2 Ultima want some testers aka Guinea pigs.

@nelamvr6 Now you have the big chance to test out your new BGA toy to the maximum limit we all will enjoy the results.

@abdullah_mag Both.

 

THat has nothing to do with using a BGA cpu. and the throttling issues have been resolved by now if you use the newest bios and for the 980 ofcourse the sufficient 240watt powersupply.

 

Well, I don't have much time, but all of the above is the correct answer:

1. Performance will not be worse, out of the box, but the R4 can be upgraded and will perform better when upgraded.
2. The warranty has changed since the 2012 generation was released. Alienware now uses Dell's regular support warranty for all of their products.
3. Quality has declined: the chassis and screen are still good, but the internals are cheap. The AW 15 and 17 share a motherboard (and other internals).

The warranty tied with your R4 requires them to give you a system of equal to or greater value in both cost and performance.

The Alienware brand we once knew is dead. It no longer exists. Now it's XPS in disguise, and when you need repairs, you'll have Inspiron technicians working on your Alienware. That's like taking your Lamborghini to a Ford dealership. Anyway, it's up to you. Good luck.

 

it cannot be endlessly upgraded. When the chipset itself is outdated you cant use a newer cpu anyway.

 

All previous!

I still use the M15x. It is OLD yet still can duke it out with the best of them.

Fact is the chipset is 6 years old and is starting to go out of date. Soldered machine = rubbish in 3 years or simply broken...

 

And yet, the CPU hasn't been a limiting factor in the past 4 years really and will likely continue to not be a limiting factor in quite a while. Intel really underestimated Sandy Bridge's strength. Most quad Sandys can still feed a maxwell GPU no problem.

 

Soldered machine doesnt suddenly break in 3 years. Its the same technology. Just not a socket. If you state it as a fact come and bring some proof to the table. In the end I have never seen a CPU die ever in my 20 years of working with these and handling any CPU since the P1 days till now. Only old cpu's where dying if the cooler fell off and didnt had any thermal protection available at that time (AMD Thunderbird 1400mhz for example). I onyl saw some GPU's die which was an issue those days because of the new solder type which had to be lead free. This has been resolved now for more than 5 years.

It is true that sandy bridge is still competitive. I have used one for 4 years as well overclocked in my desktop for 4 years. But so can every CPU after. CPU performance is rarely an issue nowadays. I do professional rendering on a laptop and it takes it like a champ. CPU performance is one of the last things I worry about. ONly 6 and 8 core systems are really faster for render like stuff. Gaming is not an issue on any CPU in these priceranges.

 

So if the CPU hasnt been the limiting factor then whats the issue? Honestly if I want to keep up with the Jones' then I'll build a desktop and not have to worry about the limitations of a laptop. As long as my laptop will game at 1080/30-60fps(which it will) then that is all I want out of it and if there comes a time where it cant then I'll look at upgrading. Its too bad somebody cant come up with replacement motherboards for some of these more popular BGA gaming laptops that allow you to use socket processors and replaceable GPU's. Seems like you could make a killing(unless there really isnt that big of a market)

 

You're still missing the point. Its not the CPU or GPU that decides to die, but the solder holding it to the board (thank you, ROHS compliant bs....). I've had thinkpads with the ATi chip that decided to pull itself off the board that was fixed with a simple reflow. Same for the PS3. Same for the 2008 Macbook Pro. Same for the 2011 Macbook pro with AMD dGPUs. Same for the 2012 rMBP with nvidia dGPU.

You understand that sustained heat/cool cycles over time in these systems breaks the solder holding it to the board, not the actual die/chip itself, right? This happens on modular components too, like MXM boards, except we can reflow or replace the MXM card, and not the whole motherboard....

 

So terrible solder and poor thermal management are to blame here, not really BGA per se.

 

Right. The difference between PGA (Pin grid array) and BGA (ball grid array) is that the PGA CPUs have pins and are replaceable/upgradable components, which is great for us enthusiasts and DIY repair guys and it keeps the cost of playing down. I've NEVER seen a socket fail, but on the rare occasion the actual CPU fails (which is really quite rare), you can just pull it out and put another one in. BGA CPUs are the exact same as the PGA CPUs, except they are permanently soldered to the motherboard and cannot be removed/replaced without a BGA station, which makes replacing them next to impossible. It does save on space, but it also surrenders to the quality of the solder being used to fix it to the board. If ONE of the solder points breaks and fails to make contact, the whole thing stops working. Exact same scenario for GPU, just slightly different (BGA GPU vs MXM GPU, MXM is card)

 

is not impossible to replace the cpu, is difficult i know, but not impossible

 

just very expensive and out of reach for most people

 

i have an alienware m14x with overheating problems since i bought it, today it have more than 4 years and the Cpu is perfect (i7 2760 hq) of course i changed the thermal paste each year, but it is really hot. The chip is not going to fail like older chips. nowadays the chips are really strong.

 

Thats what i mean with a certain era indeed around the Geforce 8800 era for example. This has been resolved already for some years now. Thats why they released the second version of the ps3 for example. I consider it a non issue nowadays.

 

It pretty much never happens to new PS3s because they've more than halved the power consumption and greatly reduced temperatures. You're not going to find a newer PS3 running at 88 degrees like you will with an Alienware 18. Apple is still struggling with this issue in the Macbook pros with dGPUs made between 2011-early 2013 and will likely continue to struggle with this due to sheer thermal law. Alienware will likely join them in the next 1-2 years.

 

Slim PS3s are actually running very hot, PS4s also by the way.

All reference gpu's are running at 80c and more if it are AMD's. None have failed me in the past 5 years from the 2xx series till now. It has to do with the solder itself and has been sorted out now. Macbooks used older generation gpu's for a long time.

 

Some people don't care if their systems won't upgrade. Actually, I'd say a majority of people don't.

The members of this forum make up less than 5% of Dell's market, so we are the minority. There's also the argument that technology advances more quickly than it even matters. By the time the Alienware 17 R3 becomes "too weak," it will already have been obsolete, in both value and performance. Depreciation eats soldered laptops alive. Alienware is basically selling us cell phones (analogically speaking).

This situation depends entirely on the OP and what he likes or wants. If he wants a shiny new Alienware 17 R3, that's totally fine. I'm not saying it isn't worth taking the R3, per say. But keep in mind that you are not getting much of an "upgrade." The only benefit is improved performance, which is a given with new hardware. The benefits do not outweigh the costs.

If you take the new R3, you better get the best configuration available. And maybe see if they'll give you a deal on the warranty... You'll regret not doing so.

 

If your slim PS3 is running hot, you've got dry paste or something else going on. My CECHA01 runs routinely in the 85-90 range and the CECH2501A runs routinely in the mid 70s.

 

The thing I've noticed with the PS3/PS4 is you have to have ALOT of room around it in order for it to cool properly, If I put them inside of my entertainment center which is open faced and leaves at least 2-3" on each side, 4-5" on top and a good 6" in the back it still gets really hot. Id suggest adding some vent fans if you keep them in a relatively enclosed space. I've since moved mine behind the TV and it never gets hot.

 

When you pick a girl to date with you should tell yourself that she may have terrible breast, butt and face, a crazy mood when she's hungry, tired and sleepy but HEY! TERRIBLE NOT A GIRL HERSELF!

 

Perfect description for Alienware's current lineup.

 

Resolved? Yeah. As said; no interest to correct the throttling limit http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/will-there-be-a-bios-a07.783232/page-5#post-10127618

 

again i say, i don't mind the unupgradeability as long as it is RELIABLE, i did not plan on upgrading components nor did i have that intention when i got an alienware.

I don't have to game at 60 fps 1080p on max settings for EVERYTHING, i know this is one of the downsides of gaming on a laptop and i am fine with that, i mean look at the gpu i had, it was a 675m which is basically a rebranded 580m, and i was fine with the performance up until the card fried again a few months ago.

If down the line i will have to play games on medium or med-low settings that is totally fine with me as long as i still hit decent framerate.

 

Get a very long extended warranty. The best advice. New Motherboard isn't cheap.

 

I dont see any clockspeed thorttling in that post only current limit thorttling which seems to have no effect on the clockspeed. But he is only testing 1 core at a time.

 

This thread is about the 17 r2, which had problems with the BIOS and fan profiles, and earlier orders came with 180w power bricks, all which caused the thermal throttling on this version, but for the R3 i have yet to find a single mention of any kind of thermal throttling or any other kind of throttling, and i'm telling you i have done LOTS of searching on this.

 

Did you bothered to read your own tread ? Post #14. Where is the promised maximum Oc at 4.1Ghz in that tests? How long can unlocked i7-6820Hk run Dell's promised 4.1Ghz and +58w Tdp? Stock Tdp doesn't count. Mostly all socket processors can run over it's stock nominally Tdp a long time. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/bga-only-is-it-true.783466/page-2#post-10127289

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ig-i-mean-testers.782689/page-8#post-10120840

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ig-i-mean-testers.782689/page-8#post-10120849

@rinneh if you want; You can read in the Throttlestop guide what Unclewebb said about Jacks "throttle" BGA aka Hq processor in his Aw laptop. Search self or I can do it for you.

 

I have read all about it and I am using a similar machine myself. It does not throttle and almost constantly turbo boosting under load. I dont suddenly have a magical AW15 that others have. BGA has nothing to do with performance. The CPU's used in current laptops are just fairly low voltage and powerconsuming compared to desktop style cpu's which are automatically socket types.

 

Can you please post some wprime 1024 8 threads stress tests with pictures of all power limits and clock speed monitored with Xtu ? http://www.wprime.net
And test also with Oc up 2 bin. All i7-47xxMq/Bga can Oc 2 bin. Run wprime also with 3.6Ghz on all 4 cores then finish with 3.8Ghz 4 cores in the test.

 

Technically the 6820HK is 2.7-3.6ghz, the 4.1 that is promised by dell is likely when using a GA.

 

Where find you that useless info ? Dynamic overclock shall function without G/A on newest Aw laptops. No promised Oc if they don't buy the GA ? LOL. Really? Read the spec one more time. Maybe you forgot; 6820Hk is unlocked also.

 

I have to enable power limit loging though but I can do that later when I am not in the office. Just did a run while going to the toilet It was even running while also rendering stuff in C4D.

But there are some power limit fluctuations sometimes but they have no effect on the clockspeed.

 

Old test of Wprime 1024. Median for your processor is 239 sec.

 

I dont find it strang that it took longer because my machine was doing other things at the same time. It had illsutrator, photoshop and C4D open at the same time with the latter rendering a simple scene.

 

Remember to put all power limits on in Xtu monitoring in tests.

 

Yeah I noticed after I ran the test. But in the end no changes in clockspeed. It is working as advertised. Still a low power CPU. But it does not thorttle and that was my point. It is keeping the turbo boost under load. As far as I know there was only throttling with 980M machines with a too small powersupply.