Alienware M17xR4 replace 7970m with 680m

Edit: Now trying to figure out how a MSI 4gb (maybe) model got into a MSI 2gb model for an Alienware M17xR4 as also a 2gb and how to deal with installing and how to determine 4gb vs 2gb as no software seems to report correct number and the model per techpowerup vga database shows the board matches the 4gb not 2gb model.

While I work on the issue with Dell, I have decided to get a 680m as the replacement. Simply due to it was designed for the Dell/alienware model, bios is happy with it and so no special modifications/drivers needed to get it working. I was going to go with 770/780m or 970m/980m but with OS limitations and bios versions hacked vs unhacked, 680m was best choice.

Now the first question, I have been told yes and no on this. The company who sold me this, compeve, stated the heatsink piece that currently is used on my now dead 7970m (had a 660m in system, they upgraded it to 7970m) would work on my 680m, however I have read in some places they will not work. I have the x bracket for the Nvidia (came with video card) and I know the x brackets are different, so that problem is solved. However whether my heatsink and the pipes are going to work with the 680m.
AT0MK0010F0 DP/N:00MMPT CN-00MMPT-72744-235-005Y-A00 current model

which is a 3 copper heat pipe design. I also noticed that the screws can be moved as if they planned this to support more than 1 type of gpu. However the copper part of the plate sits at a different angle (picture diamond vs square) like a diamond matching the 7970m chip and the nvidia 680m is more square in that part of the GPU would not have contact with the copper plate. However it looks like if I take a fine pointed knife, I can remove the spaces of the diamond to make it a square as the copper plates seems to be just covered with a black piece of tape like.
Would that be unwise? If good idea what type of tool to remove the parts of the black tape so the copper plate covers the nvidia.

Also came with Shin-Etsu MicroSi Thermal Paste. I have Formula 5 from Antec (but it doesn't mention if it can be used GPU's just says CPU - still in original package from 4 years ago). Now I have no intention to overclock the 680m and I don't overclock the CPU or any other parts.

Also are the little screws on the heatsink fine to use. The one they shipped in terms of the x-bracket only had 4 raised spots for where the screws go in.

so

1) Is the heatsink with pipes going to work fine with the 680m or do I need to purchase a totally different model
2) Is the thermal paste they included fine or even under normal use will it be unable to keep the temp low on the GPU (normal for temp)
3) Can the Antec Formula 5 a better choice to use than the included thermal paste or are both useless to keep the 680m under normal temps and high end games

Thanks any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Peel off the black tape and you're good to go

 

Yeah remove the tape, scrape it off, and then use a S.O.S pad to clean the copper on it, go in figure 8's and clean it, and then you should be good to go.

 

Well sadly it immediately did the same issue as the 7970m which would say the graphics card is defective. Different distortions (the 7970m had 2 red lines going top to bottom) with short blocks of "-" all across the monitor. However I could read the content unlike with AMD. So now begins my next chapter in whack a mole. What is wrong now? Did the normal stuff, clear cmos/bios/default settings, verify igpu is having no issues, try switching manually to dgpu, HOWEVER unlike the AMD which caused windows to crash at the logo screen and only could every once an a while get into safe mode, the Nvidia is allowing me to go into safe or normal mode, just with the clutter on the screen. I wish there was a jumper like on motherboard that you jump and wala! bios is fresh and ready to go, as I just don't know how much I can trust the pull battery and memory hold down power 30 sec, and bios is clear. What if I hold it for only 25 secs or 45 secs, will that make a difference?

So I start a hot weekend playing construction with my laptop again. Some hints are at the motherboard, which then I wonder how Dell/Alienware would deal with it, since my laptop mobo was replaced in late June 2015 (depends on what the warranty is on replaced parts and if new or refurb - of course they were told not to, the bios was flash to A12 - not suppose to and their records show no change, while paperwork sent back says yes it was changed - oh well).

 

Okay I need someone who speaks Keplerwaremsi language. From what I have been able to figure out, per gpu-z the model is a 1028 from Dell. If I do a dump of the video bios and read it using kepler bios tweak its says vendor is 1462 MSI. The latest 680m drivers from Nvidia is 368.61. Neither the Dell, Nvidia or MSI inf file have the inf info for the model of 680m (10de-11a0) board id P2051B SKU 002 (which according to techpowerup https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/131796/msi-gtx680m-4096-120604 is a MSI 4GB not 2GB as sold on Amazon, the bios version matches mine). So how in the world do I know which driver inf file to modify, which nvidia driver version (msi, dell/alienware or reference drivers) to use in an Alienware M17xR4. Since I don't know how to deal with gpuz saying vendor is 1028 (dell) and kepler bios tweak saying vendor is 1462 MSI.

Please anyone who knows what I should do. The model was sold as new and Nvidia Geforce GTX 680M 2gb gddr5 MXM Mobile Graphics Card N13E-GTX-A2 for Alienware M18xr2 m17xr4 Gaming Laptops Notebooks MSI/Dell (on the invoice), on Amazon
GeForce GTX 680M 2GB GDDR5 MXM Mobile Graphics Card N13E-GTX-A2 for Alienware M18xR2 M17xR4 Gaming Laptops Notebooks MSI/Dell

Now if it is a 4gb, is there anything on the PCB that will help me determine the version (the heat sink is already in place so only limited viewing). It is green and not blue PCB color. Has 8 chips on the back and 8 on the front (assuming the same size means the memory (so either 16 x 256mb vram if it is 4gb model and 16x128mb for the 2gb). I don't want to accuse the seller of anything till I can narrow down just what I have, after all the 4gb would be great to have over the 2gb (but I will probably game anything that would need 4gb). However I don't know where to go or what drivers to use with it. Worst of all I don't know what other "modifications" this person/company has made to the bios (read stories of overseas video cards having the bios configured to look like Model A when it is a slower Model B, since users mostly look at specs in Windows and not at the video bios level)

Does that mean I have to use a modified bios as well, if so how do I get from A12 backwards in order to flash the bios to A12 unlocked (if that is even available), do I lose Optimus, do I have to select either igpu or dgpu in bios, etc.(while not risking a machine that is out of warranty). UGHHH

 

Newest Update the 680m is made by PNY and is sold for the HP-Z1 workstation. So how does that change everything

 

Use Nvidia drivers. Mod nvdmi.inf or use modded from techinferno.

 

The vBIOS on that may not work correctly on an Alienware. If it has 2GB of vRAM you need a Dell 680M vBIOS. If it has 4GB then you need Clevo vBIOS.

 

Was the 4gb the only model to use Samsung or did any of the 2gb? I read on several sites that the 4gb was the only model to use Samsung GDDR5.

It is a green board not blue (remember reading your comments in another case of trying to id the boards). It could very likely be a PNY 2gb that was design for the HP-Z1 workstation (they just didn't order the special housing for it so they could sell the card separately), so that just adds more difficulty..

 

@danger007 did you have any luck resolving this? Others may want to know what worked (or didn't).

Sent from my overpriced Galaxy S6 Edge +

 

He's got his whole story going on in the M17x subforum, hasn't replied to me though

 

I posted a follow-up on that forum, didn't you get the answer? If not please accept my apology and I will repost what the final conclusion was.

@Raidriar help was absolutely decisive and only way the issue was resolved. I can confirm I now have a 680m running in place of the repurposed 7970m which serves as a bookmark for when reading one of my big telephone like books to solve other computer issues as they arise!

I still wouldn't want to do this as a living. The notebook/laptop is just too small and limited in terms of testing parts on a desktop computer vs a desktop being used to test/fix a problematic other desktop. Now that they have gone to BGA/Soldered parts it is a pity because now the notebooks are fixed at the factory and leave little to no upgradeability (which is one of the main reasons I bought an AW rather than some other brand with the GPU soldered on the mobo). The only thing I haven't decided yet on to upgrade is the memory, whether 16gb from 8gb is going to make much difference.

Post Edit: I saw a response that was posted yesterday and have responded. However for this thread, I can say it can be closed with full resolution.

 

It did work. All credit for what I am about to say goes to @Raidriar.

If you can when you want to change video cards in your laptop, if it isn't a Laptop Maker model (i.e. Clevo for Clevo, Dell for AW/Dell, MSI for MSI) meaning you own a Clevo laptop and you get the card direct from Clevo or a 3rd party you trust and they give you 100% assurance, do not apply paste, thermal pads or heat sink.

When you call the laptop maker, ask for both their after market (out of warranty) and in-warranty stock, as they aren't always open about it. If you have to, pretend you are confident they have them and you just need the price (as that will usually motivate, at least with Dell/AW to actually check their inventory).

If you buy from a 3rd party (ebay, amazon, or whatever) ask ?'s before buying. Make sure if board is a dud whether you have to pay for return shipping if you don't get a replacement from them (for example they only have 1 in stock and you have it), any restocking fees and just as important, can you flash the bios and if it borks it can you still return it. Ask what happens if you use the thermal pads up or a brand new x-bracket (still with the cover over the sticky parts) will you pay in the return fee. Also find out if they refund shipping for a defective card. Last but not least, if you do get a defective card and they can send you a replacement insist that they should pick up the return shipping (I did and got a label that didn't cost me to ship back something defective).

Something I didn't plan ahead for was the X bracket. The one they shipped wasn't the correct one. I finally asked them if they had the specific Dell Part # and they said no. If I had known that I could have shaved a few days off the troubleshooting. So advice, find out the specific X bracket model for the Graphics card and laptop maker so they can all arrive around the same time and match correctly as those who help aren't full time tech support so any delay is asking them to essentially hang on the forums to see your response.

Instead if you can take a picture or if you can't get the picture to show the details, then use good old paper and pen, and write down things like s/n, p/n, the etching on the gpu die, essentially anything that can be used to identify the card.

A very important step is to identify the memory chips and find out what size memory you have, as that can help in narrowing down the card, for example not many models of the 680m w/4GB were made. Dell did not make a 4GB model for example, so you know the card isn't from Dell.

While waiting for help from the great people here at NBR, do some leg work of your own (googling). Type in some of those numbers/sn/pn, etching on the GPU to see what you can find out. Call the company/person you bought the card from to see what they have in terms of drivers and if the card can't be identified ask them just who the card was made by. For example the company I bought my card from on Amazon, said it was from PNY.

Side Note: I would advise against PNY as their tech support while it appears to be US Based, they don't know their own product line. One tech support person told me to stop claiming PNY made any card for HP or anybody. I said I could point him to the pdf on their website, he essentially said they have never made products for a specific company so unless I have a tech ? for a valid PNY product he has to end the call!

The first card I had already applied the thermal pads, paste and heat sink. So I couldn't provide any details on the card beyond what the seller and well PNY said. The bios seemed to indicate it was either Dell or MSI. The seller said it was 2GB which only made things more complicated. I asked for an Advanced Replacement (this is where you pay for a new item and if you don't send the other defective product back, then you are stuck with both units - WD, Maxtor and Seagate use to do this with hard drives, send you a replacement and then give you 30 days to return the RMA Defective drive or you get stuck paying for the replacement and stuck with the defective drive as well).

When I got the second card, I wasn't so hasty to get it pasted, padded and sinked. Instead I tried to photo it, couldn't get a good image of any of the writing. So I turned to paper and pen and wrote down any and everything that obviously was a way to identify. A person should obviously know when imprinting on a board is just for circuit reference and when it is actually some form of ID. They shouldn't be afraid to ask if they don't understand what to look for, but if they see CI001, CI002, CI003 and on and on, then that means nothing in terms of trying to ID the board. Whatever info I did find and was able to get info on the web for it, I posted it in my follow-up with the person helping me and they immediately recognized one of the sets of number/letters as being MSI. With that knowledge and the size of the memory chips from Samsung it allowed him to help me narrow it down with my research as well to a 4GB MSI card (remember dealer said 2gb).

Then once you get started, make sure you ask and not assume. If you want to assume something, then ask it like, "I assume I am to use the bios file you sent me for the first card", that allows whoever is helping to just respond with a yes/no. Make sure you keep in contact via that exact forum post, remember to use the "@" and the persons screen name, so they are notified when the message has a new update. If there is a delay for some reason, just touch base with them as well and let them know, you are waiting on a x bracket or whatever, once again out of courtesy.

Then once it is working, get back in contact. If you aren't sure what the next step is after, ask, since you might have to remove the card if you don't. If you have any other ?'s let them know. Once you have done this, ask for thread to be closed or say solution found.

As mentioned above make sure you provide as much detail as possible on all post. Make sure you have the right parts, and if possible provide part numbers.

Be aware that you might have to flash the video bios and/or System Bios and so they need to know the risk that come with it and to know if they take the risk it is their own doing and not the person helping. Make sure you have all the software you will need on hand as well (Windows install DVD, a bootable usb key/thumbdrive, and needed patches, drivers, files from the laptop maker, etc.)

Oh common knowledge, remember static is the enemy. Have either anti-static gloves or wrist wrap (less than $10 and can be used for any computer project or other electronics sensitive to static. Avoid the carpet obviously or moving around or wearing clothes that cause their own static (things like a sweater of wool or cotton). While most people develop and understanding of what to touch and not to, unless they are comfortable with handling at risk static items, then they should take precautions.

Now how did I arrive at the AMD 7970m being dead? Well first I tried for nearly a month all the various articles on the web. Tried doing the Dell way, then 3rd party way, etc. Finally when I felt I had exhausted all avenues then I posted the question. I would never buy an AMD again for desk/lap. Things that I encountered was the logo screen of death when it tried to load any AMD drivers. The most obvious thing I tried first was to run off the dedicated AMD 7970m. It failed to go into windows via normal or safe mode. Which should have clued me in. I used DDU each time I tried a new combination of drivers. I tried various utilities to have them ID the hardware or if it could see the 7970m.

Tried 3rd party drivers like Leshcat for the AMD, no luck. As I mentioned do fresh install and follow in my case, the Dell way. Don't install anything but what is needed to get to the driver install of that hardware item, as more drivers equals more difficulty. I finally came here an posted my comments after posting simultaneously on other sites (which is frowned upon, but in my case I was already nearly 1 1/2 months in trying to solve what initially appeared as a UEFI issue that actually was the GPU instead). Then I eventually got started with @Raidriar and off I went on my journey.

I would not want to be a laptop repair person, even though I am comfortable with a desktop, the registry and everything, as laptops simply aren't as flexible to troubleshoot like you can with a desktop. Also I build my own desktop computers (not the PCB or Dies obviously). However a laptop once again isn't the same, with limited upgrades.

If you want help, you are going to have to do some research on your own. Since who knows how many request for help are posted daily here, Techinferno, techpowerup, toms hardware and so on. If you don't know how to open up your laptop and there are tons of articles on it/videos as well, the ? might get skipped over or you might get lucky and someone is feeling awfully helpful and they post a response.

I hope this is the material you were asking for @deadsmiley. I can expand on this or cover in more detail certain aspects. I would probably point anyone to my topic where I have been working with Raidriar, http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...with-pny-based-680m-from-hp-z1-design.794297/ (and probably rename it to something like Alienware M17x R4 7970m GPU has failed, purchased 680m but need a starting point or something like that) so they can see some of the troubleshooting that was done. What was posted in there would be a great way of creating an overall support documentation as a reference.

Dell/AW should be the ones taking note however. Not only to expand on their own tech documents, but as an example of customer service done right (and Raidriar wasn't being paid for this support - so probably an example for all companies tech support) I found that it can be hard to actually find a specific answer but if you can match your situation without reading 100 plus pages in a forum topic, that probably would have made it easier. Of course who has the time to actually sift through the 1000's of post daily to create such a guide from all the post/threads daily.

 

Glad to see you're operational again, just pay it forward. This is an enthusiast board, we are supposed to help each other out

 

@Raidriar you nailed it. In many cases we (collectively) know more about these systems than the manufacturers do. After all we beat on them a lot more than they ever could.

 

I am sorry it was so long, but I wanted to provide as much detail as possible and of course I could have expanded it even more, but I figured it would be looked over and if more details were wanted, I would be happy to expand on it (plus being that others can look at the communication I had back and forth with @Raidriar hopefully that would fill in any of the blanks without making the post too long or incorrectly put something in.