Alienware 2015 - your views on BGA vs. upgradeable CPU sockets and MXM slots

I had both side by side, and given the lack of MXM and optical drive, it was pretty thick.

 

Had the AW17R2 been even slightly thinner than it is already, it will also surely had even poorer cooling...

 

With the way that Dell has built and marketed their "Monitors" over the last 8 years, from nothing to be in the top 5 monitor manufacturer's; I would argue that 18.4 and 17.3 inch 4k panels should be on the market now.

I mean Dell has dumped so much money in building monitors, they are like Apple..... Dell can eat the R and D cost on 4k and 5k 18.4 inch and 17.3 inch panels..... Just another way Dell is slacking off and not offering anything innovative.....
Dell created a market they did not have..... So they drop multiple millions of dollars developing monitors..... build a reputation and then splat. Start selling cheap junk. So I don't want to hear anything about Dell not having money when they have 4 -6 laptop lines and cannot afford to have 1 of those laptop lines for people looking for that less than 5% market.

Infact, I fell into Dell's trap..... I bought 4 Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP's when they came out. Of course, once the Warranty ended, they fell apart..... $599 per monitor back then.

Guess what.... going with Samsung monitors this time around..... Thin, light weight, accurate color and the life expectancy of the Samsung monitors is longer than the Dell's.. The only thing Samsung monitors don't have is all the connections in the back which is sad.

 

Dell doesn't make their own monitors lol.

The panels are usually made by Samsung (if its S-PVA) or LG (if its IPS) and all Dell does is stick a plastic shell around it and sell it. So no they didn't drop multiple millions of dollars making anything.

That Dell Ultrasharp 2408 that you claim to own four off was made by Samsung.

 

Actually you can compare Dell to Cleveo. Dell is like Ford or GM. Ford makes car's but also has owned or owns the following companies even though they are not "Fords" : Lincoln,Mercury,Edsel,Merkur,Jaguar,Aston Martin,Volvo,Land Rover,Mazda,FPV,Troller

Same thing with Dell, Alienware was its own company that sold out to Dell. Alienware is still not "Dell". Just like Volvo is not a Ford when Ford owned or had a controlling interest in Volvo. Volvo is Volvo.

Alienware is Alienware. Dell owns Alienware and they are trying to make it a Dell when they have 4-6 other low end junk lines of laptops. I imagine if Ford came out with a $15,000 Jaguar......

All that would do is give people the excuse to say "I drive a Jaguar" but that $15,000 jaguar is by name plate only. It does not carry the innovation that Jaguar built its name on years ago.

How about Aston Martin...... I am sure people would stampede over a $15,000 Aston Martin..... Do you think for one minute that a $15,000 Aston Martin has all the features that a "real" $250,000 Aston Martin does?

But it has an Aston Martin name plate on it.....

 

I think I mentioned this before (in this thread) but it's quite obvious Dell wants to capitalize on the elimination of the "upgrades market." Now you have to go back to them and purchase if you want something better. I wouldn't be surprised if they started selling BIOS support for previous generation models, allowing people to upgrade. They're forcing consumers' hands, so to speak, and don't care if that means they sacrifice their name and reputation in the process because they know someone will always be there with a credit card waiting to purchase the "latest and greatest..." For every knowledgeable member on this forum purchasing an Alienware, there are probably 3-5 "average consumers" out there buying them just because they look cool. Delienware is driving the hype train, and these idiots are hopping on. I'm disappointed at Alienware's desperation for becoming "just another gaming laptop."

The saddest thing about this market trend: Alienware may still be offering the best quality product (at least in regards to the actual chassis). But they've surely taken things down several notches - cheap is the new black.

 

Not that many people upgraded though really and dell themselves made a healthy amount on any part they sold too. I don't think that was the reason.

 

After talking to some people i know about this subject i also feel very ashamed about the direction they are taking ultrabook batteries are really terrible again just my opinion and i am not impressed with this new lineup it's really terrible.

 

I'm glad you at least looked into the situation. Most consumers purchase products "at a first glance." And I have to admit, at a first glance, Alienware looks nice and shiny like nothing you've ever seen. But beneath all those layers lies the truth, and the truth hurts.

As I've said before: Even if Alienware is crap in comparison to the potential of what they could have become, and what we knew, it's still one of the better "built" notebooks on the market. Now, with that said, the market is full of crap now. So, it's not really anything to be proud of.

 

The market is full of total crap and total junk and i dispise it incredibly i've owned many gaming laptops and i am just going to have to try out clevo and sager from now on probably buy from lpc digital really good prices using a desktop pc for the time being i might even go full desktop pc i have a nice 4k monitor now the LG professional one really beautiful. Anyway, i've owned alienware since 2010 with the M17xr1 really amazing the alienware x51 pretty cool machine the alienware m18XR2 the 18 is alright i really hope sli 980s will work eventually. I can't believe it that's also ridiculous too that they underclocked the graphics card so you will be forced to use the amplifier please what a joke.

 

I agree with you about the Amplifier. It's a bottleneck / throttle-house just waiting to happen. It also ties you down to a desk, so that defeats the purpose of having a gaming laptop in the first place. Companies are now taking the cheap and easy route by making "Amplifiers" to boost performance as opposed to making beast laptops to satisfy gaming needs. How pathetic... Not that an "eGPU" is necessarily a bad idea, but the way they did it, and the way they priced it, is just ridiculous for what you get. You can probably design your own "Alienware Graphics Amplifier" using junk from leftover builds for less than $50.

The sad thing is, in regards to purchasing an "upgradeable" system, is that NVIDIA's next generation of graphics processors may require a new socket type. That's right, Maxwell may very well be the last to support MXM 3.0b. This is not confirmed but new technologies (i.e. NVLink) require some differentiation in this area.

P.S. For the record, 980M SLI beats the GTX 980 by a good margin 9/10 times. Some games do not support SLI, or do, but poorly, and of course there are exceptions made there. It's such a shame to see SLI die in the laptop gaming world. I doubt MSI's 18" laptop (can't think of the name atm) will even be around much longer because it probably won't sell that well.

 

How is that new MSI GT 80 Titan doing i wonder about that one. Well i've just recently read about it and discussed it with my friend too the only way to answer about these things is too speak with your dollars just like many other things in the world. I don't like apple and i don't like companies that portray and want to become the norm Samsung and their new stupid phones i love to have user choice and that is something that really annoys me. Yes i've heard about that too regarding no more MXM 3.0b. that's really worrysome and completely wrong it's happening everywhere today with many things having to dictate to you what to do it's your property once you get it and use it as you see fit. Yeah you can make a 100 graphics amp that is much better. Tell me about the new Alienware's that are so bad and good?

 

This is like owning a car and have to use a trailer as well, wherever you drive.

 

it's a handicap, it definitely is, but once you experience a titan x running on it it makes you feel so conflicted you could puke. The experience is amazing but there is downsides to it.

 

The idea of the amplifier may (just may) make sense if it were offered in combination with an unlocked mobile extreme edition processor, like the 4940MX, or a desktop processor, like the 4790k offered w/Z97 chipset in Sager laptops. And on top of that, only if the connection were supporting PCIe 16x, had proper driver support, and you were running a 1440p or 4k external monitor/eyefinity setup. The "Amplifier" should have much better I/O as well.

Spoiler: LOL

Alienware be like: "Buy our Alienware 15 with the 4k screen! It's a gaming laptop that won't be able to play any games because it's too weak, but don't worry, for the low price of $299 we offer you the Alienware Graphics Amplifier. But wait, there's more! You will need to spend $599 on a graphics card to play games with the Amplifier!"

Consumers be like: "OH, BOY! THAT'S AMAZING! But... Doesn't my laptop already have a graphics card?"

Alienware says: "You have a 4k screen! It's pretty... That's all that matters! Don't worry. It makes sense if you don't think about it. We'll take $25 off the GTX 980 if you order it together. "

As it currently sits, it's a bit of a joke. They're treating gaming laptops as "Ultrabooks" and making these ridiculous "eGPU's" to compensate for the "gaming" aspect the laptops were intended for. At first glance it appears to make sense for laptops like the AW 13, then you dig deeper and realize, "Oh, snap, I only have a dual-core processor... How am I going to justify this GTX 980?!"

But hey, to each his own. Most are uneducated in these matters, or unwilling to admit the hard truth. You're free to buy whatever you want, but at least know what the hell you're getting into...

 

makes no sense for the 13 admittedly, it will be way way too bottlenecked at pcie 2.0 x4, pcie 3.0 x4 only differs at about 3 to 4 fps from x16

 

At least you have the better of the processors and plan to actually utilize that GPU power with a 1440p external monitor.

 

An ultrabook can never be an gaming laptop that's just ridiclous i have no problem with a thin and light gaming laptop if upgrades are allowed and enthusiasts are allowed too overclock and be themselves.

 

Hi all! I registered here ages ago, but just recently returned as I'm considering an Alienware 13. Upon looking around, I came to a strange conclusion, and it seems after reading here, that my concerns were justified.

I can't for the life of me understand why it has a low voltage dual-core CPU. Makes no sense. For one, I wanted a 970M, but understood Alienware's new model and their lineup. But the dual-core CPU just makes zero sense. Does anyone think we might see a refresh later this year with a quad-core when they release the new mobile GPUs?

 

I'm going to be really blunt here. A lot of people are really overestimating the cooling power of the 13. The best I could see the 13 handle is a 28w CPU. I don't think a 37w CPU is a good idea in a 13 since it could heat up beyond 80 C and maybe even reach 90 C. I've seen my i7-5500u go up to 77 C and around 75 C a couple of times.
The laptop has adequate cooling for the components selected for the laptop. Unless theres a low voltage quad-core Skylake mobile CPU, I highly doubt we'll see a quad 13 this year. Maybe next year, but not this year. It's either that, or CPUs need to become more heat efficient like the Maxwell GPUs.
Alienware also designed the laptop to have a good amount of battery life. 37w CPU and a 52 wHr battery? Not the best combination.

 

Some tests of new AW15 and Aw17R2. Not exactly top scores... Aw15 http://www.notebookcheck.net/Alienware-15.137077.0.html
AW17R2 http://www.notebookcheck.net/Alienware-17-R2.139485.0.html

 

Hmz, you no longer need to plug in a keyboard and mouse on the shadow But I do think the alienware machines are solid, it's just a different group they target.

A couple of generations into the future the GA is going to make a lot of sense for people.

 

Sense for who exactly? - the kind of people who don't mind chaining their laptop to a desktop sized eGPU to get better performance?

I think what you meant to say is by the time the idea of the GA gets sooo diluted and installed into the thinking of consumers, it'l be acceptable. It by no means replaces true mobile performance....it's still just a band-aid whichever way you look at it.

 

Let's just put it this way. I sometimes travel between two locations that I could not in any sensible way take a mini itx on the bus with me, but a graphics amplifier and a 17 could be brought along without too much hassle. That's a fantastic use of it right there and I'm sure there is plenty more.

 

A couple of generations into the future, I think several previous performance laptop owners build their own gaming desktops

 

I see the future of gaming laptops and the future will be more and more motherboards being baked in ovens to reflow failed BGA contacts.

 

The time of desktop replacements is slowly disappearing i think. It is simply not feasible to keep producing them on this scale. a fairly well powered but more portable laptop is the way to go and cheaper as well. In the past high performance PC's where almost always really big towers but since ITX systems can be just a powerful as a workstation with 8core intel CPU's in a box the size of a playstation 4 while being cheaper than a fully tricked out laptop is the way to go for many gamers with not a lot of space. There simply isnt a big market left for the type of laptop which can be expanded anymore.

I rather have portability myself while still retaining 90% of the performance compared to an upgradable laptop which is simply to heavy and has not battery life to speak off. Replaement parts availability depends of the popularity of the machine anyway. If after 2 years my machien is outated I buy a new one and start out with a newer and better screen, newer and fresh battery, new technology such as new USB ports etc.

I do consider these new models to be performance laptops by the way. They only shaved off some of the performance but are almost twice as thin. Ofcourse you can always get more performance but relative to size these are better performing.

Ofcourse I would wish for MXM in these machines, but it is not possible in this size bracket.

I have seen any BGA GPU fail for about 5 years now, I hardly doubt CPU BGA packages will suddenly fail. Failing contacts where an issue just when the solder had to be lead free in Europe and die sizes where much bigger.

 

The only BGA anything I've seen fail were the the original fat PS3's and Xbox 360's.

 

Same here and ofcourse the notorious Geforce 8800 series of GPU's and some other less used parts with a similar soldering process.But all reference Geforce & AMD cards from past 5 years have been running under load around 80c to 90c and I havent seen a card failing because of heat. The cards that did fail where because of overclocking and or faulty memory chips which caused artifacting.

 

I can't comment on the newer hardware. Perhaps the smaller die designs now have reduced or eliminated overheating issues which tend to cause cracks in the BGA solder points that lead to failure. This is what Microsoft discovered with the original Xbox 360 GPUs. Since redesigning the GPU with a smaller die and less power draw on the Jasper models, the infamous RROD was more or less a thing of the past. Hopefully the same will apply to the newer BGA laptop models. Time will tell.

 

The solder has been improved too. But all reference cooled cards run at very high temperatures and they do it for years without issues. I do not see reliability issues with BGA these days. It is annoying though that such issues are caused by the oversensitive EU in regards of manufacturing. All the wasted hardware because of solder failure during the beginning of lead free solder was more wasteful compared to using the previous less environment friendly solder.