Alienware 17 R4 GTX1080 in game random Stutter & Freeze

Hi all,

I'm starting this new discussion as there are quite a number of us suffering from this issue. Just to be clear, i recently got my laptop replaced with the 7820HK GTX1080, cpu core temperature differential problem is still there by about 10C but that's not the main issue. I noticed during gaming, after 10min or so, the game will start to stutter and freeze for almost 1 sec, then continue then stutter again then continue as normal and so on.. when the game starts stuttering, it will continue to do so frequently.

As pointed out by several of the members here, the temps are within range (61C for GPU, 80C for CPU), no overheating, no overclocking, all settings default. Using the latest Nvidia driver. The system is also repasted and thermal pads changed to fujipoly 11. all contact points for every thermal pads triple checked. SSD is Toshiba running at over 70C.

The laptop came with the new OC vBIOS. Firmware was updated to the latest K1.09.

My previous laptop, 6820HK GTX1080, exact same condition, repasted, repad, latest nvidia driver, OC vBIOS, latest firmware had absolutely no random stuttering and freezing in game issue.

Main Objective
To fix the stuttering issue, you basically need to seal all the gaps for the components that deliver power to the GTX 1080 and the GDDR5X. The power delivery (PD) components and GDDR5X are detailed in the picture i attached below.

How to detect the problem?
Make sure you have the OC vBIOS installed. Fire up GPUz and HWinfo, let them run in the background. Start a very CPU and GPU intensive game like BF1, play it straight for 30min to 1 hour. Depending on your laptop condition, you might see the stutter happening after 10-15min, or it could be as long as 30min. when the stutter starts, it will freeze the game for 1 second or less, sometimes the game audio will freeze as well, and it will continue to do so frequently, randomly, every 10-15 seconds. Exit the game when you are satisfied with the horrific result.

Open up GPUz check whenever the stutter happens, the GPU load will drop to 0% and PerfCap Reason will register VRel, which stands for voltage reliability.

So the stuttering has absolutely something to do with DC power delivery to GTX1080. from my own investigation, it seems like the power delivery circuit is the culprit, possibly overheat due to the extra 30W power required by the new vBIOS.

Cause of the problem
this is definitely a manufacturing issue. in a mass production facility, they can't customize each heatsink thermal pads to cater for each motherboard. All the thermal pads and heatsink came out from the same assembly line. because the heatsink is so wide, massive and it's made out of copper, it's very difficult for them to mass produce them to meet tight tolerances. for high end systems with GTX1080 with OC vBIOS, the margin for error is even smaller.

If you are one of the few lucky ones, you will have a system that is stutter free from factory. If you are not one of the lucky ones, you need to put in some work to fix this issue.

performing this is like doing a repaste, you simply shouldn't be doing it in the first place and expect a fully functional laptop out of the box. but in reality, this is not the case. a repaste is almost mandatory with such high end system and for the unlucky ones who have stuttering issue, a customized repad to fit your heatisnk to your motherboard is also mandatory.

Again i can't stress enough, downgrading the vbios is only a quick fix that ignores the underlying problem with your laptop's power delivery (PD) components cooling system. Playing games and stressing the laptop with the old vbios will highly likely shorten the life of your laptop because the PD components are already operating at temperatures exceeding their specifications.

And no, despite how many times you repaste or repad, if you are following the standard guide to repaste and repad, it's equal to not fixed in the first place.

How to fix the problem?
Apply thermal pads to the PD components and GDDR5X so it will seal any gaps and make proper good contacts with the heatsink. This might sound easy for the experienced ones, but they are actually not. It requires a lot of time and patience (it took me 3 attempts to get it right) and extreme attention to details. My guide is NOT the standard fix because all heatsinks are not created equal but you can use it as a reference. i've simplified the methods for those who are lazy to read my findings below.

Before doing anything, start a graphics intensive game like BF1 and play for 30min or more to check if you have any stuttering issue. If your experience is good, you are one of the few lucky ones. If you experience stutters as described above, proceed to the steps below.

Just a disclaimer, i'm not responsible if you messed up your laptop because you don't know what you are doing in the first place. and changing thermal pads, like doing a repaste, might or might not void your warranty.

With that out of the way, let's start!

1. Disassemble your laptop according to the alienware 17 R4 service manual. Apply arctic cooling thermal pads to the PD component location and GDDR5X. if you are using stock pads, skip to no.3

2. once the pads are applied, DO NOT apply thermal paste. place your heatsink onto the motherboard and screw down all the tension arms. (you are not supposed to assemble the system at this stage and do not power on)

3. unscrew, remove the heatsink. Thermal pads that are making good contacts with the heatsink will imprint the component shape onto the pads. this is the easiest way to spot gaps. those pads without component imprint will need additional pads. you can add 0.5mm pads on top of it, or 1mm pads if the gap is very big. to determine what thickness you need, you need to screw the heatsink back to the motherboard and visually inspect the problematic areas now.

4. after applying additional pads, screw the heatsink back to the motherboard, visually inspect all the PD components again, wiggle the pads a little with a tweezer to see if it moves. if it is moving, you still have a gap.

5. remove the heatsink and visually check for PD component and GDDR5X imprints making sure all pads have imprints on them. dell original pads might be difficult to check for imprints because some of them return to shape once pressure is removed. But fujipoly pads do not return to shape so it's very easy to tell. however, be extra careful when reusing fujipoly pads because it can be difficult to tell if those imprints are new or old. i've since changed my recommendation to arctic cooling thermal pad or stock thermal pad.

6. when you are done making sure all pads have PD and GDDR5X imprints on them, you can apply thermal paste and assemble the system.

7. test running graphics intense games like BF1 and enjoy stutter free gaming experience.

Update 29/5/2017
After one week of testing and gaming, I'm happy to report that the stuttering issue is now a thing of the past. I've played BF1 continuously for 2 hours, Far Cry Primal for 2 hours straight, non of them had stuttering or freezing issue. I have changed nothing but the thermal pads, making sure they get optimum contact with critical components. Moving on to the last major problem with this laptop, CPU core temperature differential issue, and i'm testing several fixes at the moment.

Update 21/5/2017
Due to popular demand, I'm adding a picture of the motherboard with description on the areas you need to pay special attention to fix the suttering issue. The ones circled in RED are VRM, YELLOW are Chokes, and GREEN are GDDR5X. The problem can affect both brand new system and those who upgraded their vBIOS to the OC vBIOS released by Dell. I hope this helps all those who suffered from in game stuttering.

Update 19/5/2017
After extensive testing with the OC vBIOS, playing BF1 more than one hour straight several sessions, i'm happy to report that in game stuttering is no longer present. i will try it with other games and play for a longer period when i have time, but as of now, stutter with OC vBIOS has been fixed.

For those experiencing this issue, i strongly urge you to check the power delivery circuits on both the CPU and especially the GPU. because of the higher power requirements of the OC vBIOS, the tolerance for error is a lot less and power delivery components must be cooled properly in order to sustain the 180W+ power required to feed the GTX1080.

For those who want a quick fix, you can always downgrade the vBIOS which will fix the stuttering issue too, BUT the underlying problem is still there. the power delivery components are not cooled properly and even if you can get away with 150W+, those components will not last long because they are not properly cooled in the first place and heat is the no.1 enemy of electronics components.


Update 13/5/2017
the in game stuttering problem is very real and it's a hit or miss issue.
I personally have a 6820HK which had no stuttering issue whatsoever even with the OC vBIOS.
Now i own a 7820HK that came with the OC vBIOS, having bad stuttering after 5-10min playing a game.
@DeeX , i remembered reading some of the post by iunlock cautioning owners not to upgrade to the new OC vBIOS or else it will cause a lot of in game stuttering. so this issue is real even for team LHz.

Now the good news. I have managed to prolonged the in game stuttering to almost 30 min or longer before the first symptom appear. before that, it was about 5-10min with the exact same game.

The problem lies with the thermal pads covering the power delivery circuits, VRM, FETs. Again, for those who followed iunlock's guide blindly, you are in for a nasty surprise. i must stress here again, NOT ALL HEATSINKS ARE CREATED EQUAL. iunlock's guide is more of a reference, which doesnt really tell you more than what alienware service manual is already showing and i learn it the hard way. ALWAYS adapt the thermal pads according to the heatsink you have.

For both my 6820HK and 7820HK system, following iunlock's guide on the thermal pad thickness meant some of the VRM, FETs are not covered with thermal pad, leaving a gap, some as tiny as 0.1mm which can be very difficult to spot, and some as big as 1mm. I'm afraid there is no other way than to be patient and take time to visually inspect and test every single power delivery circuit thermal pad contacts.

i even noticed gaps between the GDDR5X under the GTX1080, the ones which iunlock recommended 0.5mm, but in actual fact you need 1mm pads and the factory pads are sized 1mm as well. Also there are gap for the GDDR5x to the right of the GTX1080, the top chip which is right under the heatpipes. because of the heatpipe shape, it will not make contact with the top memory chip at all. by just sealing the gaps for the GDDR5x, i was able to prolong the stutter to 30min!

obviously i wasn't happy because stuttering is still present after 30min gaming, so disassembled and check again. I had to open and check my thermal pad contacts 3 times and every time i opened and inspect, despite my best effort, the next time i open i still find gaps, some of which are not visually apparent. I found a crude way to test the physical contacts which is more or less helpful. when the heatsink is attached firmly, use a tweezer to wiggle the thermal pads a bit. if it can freely move, you have a gap problem. this was how i caught the gap on the 4 tiny VRM on top of the GTX1080. Visually it was a perfect seal, but little do i know the gap is so tiny it can't be seen easily but when pushed with a tweezer, the thermal pad actually moved!

for the bottom VRM and FETs under the GTX 1080, those iunlock recommended 1mm or 1.5mm, some i have to use 2mm depending on the gap. and if you noticed from iunlock's guide, he recommended to leave the factory white 0.1mm pads on top of the CPU side as it is. to the far left of the white pads is another small white pad which makes absolutely NO contact at all with the choke underneath. you need to use at least a 1mm pad for that.

 

@iunlock , you repasted many systems with the GTX1080 and i'm very sure you have come across this issue. Care to share with us your thoughts and experience and how to resolve this problem?

 

I've been working away and noticed this when gaming using hotel wifi. I put it down to dodgy wifi even though ping seemed good. I'll see if it happens again now am home.

 

The problem is in vBIOS (because the service center can not help me, I tried everything possible). Before updating the system was stable (6820HK GTX1080).
The temperature of the system components (with temperature sensors) does not affect the problem in any way.
Reducing the load on the graphics card helps (Prey 2017):
120 fps there is a problem
75 fps there is no problem.
The support service refused me to replace the motherboard (I can not transfer the warranty), but noted that only this is can help
P.S. I replaced the SSD with Samsung 960, of course it did not help.

 

Now I installed the old version of Vbios, this did not solve the problem completely (but the problem partially disappeared)

 

how long does it take for your games to start stuttering? let's say battlefield 1

 

5-15 minutes
In the old version of Vbios, the frequency of the video chip is reduced to 500 MHz at this moment. Maybe it's still overheating?

 

your symptoms are a bit different from mine. my game start to stutter after around 10-15min but the GPU speed is not reduced. it's running at full blast 1.9GHz+ and temps are good at 63-65C.

if your gpu speed reduced so much, it must be throttling, possibly overheat

 

in the new version of Vbios symptoms like your system

 

Hello

I have exactly the same problem you have the vbios stock?

Alienware 17 r4 I7 7820HK 1080....

 

you laptop has this problem out of the box or did this happen after u repaste and repad?

 

Out of box and i try repast... but same problem

 

Hey there - I have the exact same issue with my R4 1080 laptop. It's driving me nuts. I spent 4 hours on the phone with Dell about it and they have no clue. Have you made any progress? I'm thinking they'll have to replace the motherboard at this rate.

 

The HDMI port on my 17r4 never worked properly, tech came out and replaced the motherboard and I loaded all the most recent bios and vbios (i was previously using 1.0.8 and whatever the previous vbios was). This was just 10 days ago.
Since doing that this is when the stuttering began. I'm hoping it's bios related. I've kept the current vbios and rolled back to 1.0.9 on the bios but it's still stuttering. Will try the previous vbios and hope that is the issue!

 

Previous Vbios didn't change anything am wondering if its a recent windows update maybe?

 

Previous Vbios didn't change anything for me ! BUT clean install + driver DELL and disable Windows Update + Disable driver MAJ Work for me !

The prob is driver (sorry for my English )

 

Which driver?

 

Take all driver on website dell (enter your service tag and dl install the driver)

For me its 100% ok !

And on the other hand when Windows in updated my driver with Windows update I have again had freeze

 

Nice one!

Which windows update driver caused the problem?

 

for those of you monitoring the stuttering issue, if you open up GPUz, whenever the stutter happens, the GPU load will drop to 0% and PerfCap Reason will register VRel.

So the stuttering has absolutely something to do with power delivery to GTX1080. from my own investigation, it seems like the power delivery circuit is the culprit, possibly overheat due to the extra 30W power required by the new vBIOS.

 

Where did you get the old vBios?

 

I'm also running on the new vBios and have none of the issues as above, cores and gpu run cool with repaste and frames are steady. Seems to be hit or miss for people.

 

From another thread, like 3rd one down he posted the orginal for those that wanted it.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-17r4-1080-overclocked-vbios-issue.802964/page-5

 

the in game stuttering problem is very real and it's a hit or miss issue.
I personally have a 6820HK which had no stuttering issue whatsoever even with the OC vBIOS.
Now i own a 7820HK that came with the OC vBIOS, having bad stuttering after 5-10min playing a game.
@DeeX , i remembered reading some of the post by iunlock cautioning owners not to upgrade to the new OC vBIOS or else it will cause a lot of in game stuttering. so this issue is real even for team LHz.

Now the good news. I have managed to prolonged the in game stuttering to almost 30 min or longer before the first symptom appear. before that, it was about 5-10min with the exact same game.

The problem lies with the thermal pads covering the power delivery circuits, VRM, FETs. Again, for those who followed iunlock's guide blindly, you are in for a nasty surprise. i must stress here again, NOT ALL HEATSINKS ARE CREATED EQUAL. iunlock's guide is more of a reference, and i learn it the hard way.

For both my 6820HK and 7820HK system, following iunlock's guide on the thermal pad thickness meant some of the VRM, FETs are not covered with thermal pad, leaving a gap, some as tiny as 0.1mm which can be very difficult to spot, and some as big as 1mm. I'm afraid there is no other way than to be patient and take time to visually inspect and test every single power delivery circuit thermal pad contacts.

i even noticed gaps between the GDDR5X under the GTX1080, the ones which iunlock recommended 0.5mm, but in actual fact you need 1mm pads and the factory pads are sized 1mm as well. Also there are gap for the GDDR5x to the right of the GTX1080, the top chip which is right under the heatpipes. because of the heatpipe shape, it will not make contact with the top memory chip at all. by just sealing the gaps for the GDDR5x, i was able to prolong the stutter to 30min!

obviously i wasn't happy because stuttering is still present after 30min gaming, so disassembled and check again. I had to open and check my thermal pad contacts 3 times and every time i opened and inspect, despite my best effort, the next time i open i still find gaps, some of which are not visually apparent. I found a crude way to test the physical contacts which is more or less helpful. when the heatsink is attached firmly, use a tweezer to wiggle the thermal pads a bit. if it can freely move, you have a gap problem. this was how i caught the gap on the 4 tiny VRM on top of the GTX1080. Visually it was a perfect seal, but little do i know the gap is so tiny it can't be seen easily but when pushed with a tweezer, the thermal pad actually moved!

for the bottom VRM and FETs under the GTX 1080, those iunlock recommended 1mm or 1.5mm, some i have to use 2mm depending on the gap. and if you noticed from iunlock's guide, he recommended to leave the factory white 0.1mm pads as it is. to the far left of the white pads is another small white pad which makes absolutely NO contact at all with the VRM underneath. you need to use at least a 1mm pad for that.

This is not an attack against iunlock's excellent repaste guide. I think all of us are grateful for his repaste guide. however, because of the nature of the heatsink construction, not all heatsinks are created equal and you should NOT follow iunlock's guide blindly. Use his guide as a reference and adapt it to your own system's heatsink shape.

 

Unfortunate you have such issues. I flashed mine to the newer vbios and I don't have stuttering. Only time I experienced that was some weird bug in the CPU with fluctuating clocks so it was more processing stuttering than graphic stuttering. If that makes any sense. I did have a time where the GPU pads were making contact but I over compensated and made it too thick and unigine was giving me Picasso effects which was definitely memory related. Other than that, I'm not sure about the stuttering, if a fresh Windows install doesn't help then might need to hit up dell.

 

check it up with iunlock. he has a fair share of stuttering issue too otherwise he wouldn't caution against flashing the OC vBIOS.
i too have a stutter free 6820HK system. so this problem actually came to me as a surprise

 

Yea I remember him mentioning that. Don't recall if he ever found a fix for that particular system. But yea I flashed it on my kaby lake system as mine was one of the first kaby models. Luck of the draw I suppose.

 

His current system has the newest vBIOS with zero stuttering as do I.

 

The stuttering issue don't just magically disappear. He must have done something to rectify it. If he has any info on how to resolve this problem, please by all means share it with the rest of us

 

Dump from old 17R4 system. Dell support dosent have it

 

The problem in overheating of some elements of the power system for a video chip

A new version of the cooling system from China (yes, I bought it myself in China) almost removed the problem on the new vbios. I used 0.1mm copper plates to improve thermal contact and rebuilt the system several times.
In the new cooling system, there are pressure elements in the places marked with arrows

There is no universal solution. I advise you to look at the prints of the components on the thermal interface. They must be fully imprinted on them.

 

Do u have the link for the new heatsink version you purchased?

 

Can you also please explain what are the pressure elements you pointed with arrow? Any clearer pictures is good. Thanks

 

those red mark is the VRM (power delivery module)


they look like plastic squares, to make them cooler you have to use high quality thermal pad like arctic or fujipoly 11/14wmk

 

Yes I'm aware of that. I actually have fujipoly 14 on them.

Let me rephrase my question. what has the new heatsink changed in order to provide more pressure to those points? Specifically the point in between cpu and gpu where u marked a red arrow to the 3 heatpipes. I don't see any pressure point there, but I think that might be the point to fix the cpu core differential problem.

I'm hoping that is the fix to the cpu core differential problem instead of that nonsense tension arm bending technique that don't work at all.

 

you probably don't have to use new heatsink, the early batch of 1080/6820hk had to

 

Unfortunately, even with a 7820HK system, I'm still having over 10C core differential problem on the cpu. I have repasted with kryonaut 3 times, bend the tension arm on top, tried my best to balance the heatsink, nothing works. Even on my 6820HK system which I repasted countless times, the cpu core differential problem just won't go away.

What is the real fix to balance the heatsink so it can lay flat on the cpu surface? I have asked several times to some experts here but I get nothing probably because sharing the real fix is bad for business.

If I lived in the states, I would have opted for the repasting service, problem is I don't. I live in Asia and I have no choice but to do all this myself. Alienware tech support is just utterly hopeless. I hope you can understand

 

It's right there in the forums. There are probably a number of tweaks the experts use, like pressure film, etc. but these aren't particularly magic fixes. I've repasted twice following iunlock's guide, and have had satisfactory results with minimal core delta. Others have had similar successes. Due to the imperfect nature of manufacturing, the repasting guide is a great guideline but shouldnt be followed to a T. There were areas where i found thermal pads to be either too thin or thick, obviously tweak to your individual needs.

I think the real magic is these experts having their core temps in the upper 50s in OCCT, and having absurd firestrike scores.

 

We aren't secretive about the "fix" at all.

Using pressure paper, it is possible to see the pressure on the gpu and cpu die, ideally you would do this after repadding the system to see which thermal pad is a possible offender in terms of being too thick.

I would also recommend removing the choke thermal pad and using K5 Pro, as it serves to decrease the tolerance error.

Hit up @iunlock or me on the nbr discord and we can work out a solution.

 

Even without pressure paper I can see the uneven heatsink contact when removing the heatsink. The upper half of the cpu will have a thicker layer of thermal paste, while the lower half of the cpu will have a very thin layer of paste. So the problem is obviously the top side of the cpu.

My heatsink comes with the 0.1mm white thermal pads on top of the cpu. I will try your suggestion to remove it and use thermal paste on the chokes instead. I have mx-4, cooler master master gel maker and kryonaut. Which do u recommend other than k5 pro? Thank u!

 

use mx-4 on the chokes if you will

kryonaut is obv the best so you want to save it for last


usually that kind of uneven heatsink can be fixed with a heatgun and mallet

 

Are you seriously telling me you guys break out the tools and knock the heatsink straight the crude way? That sounds like a lot of work and a lot of risk.

 

Can we use sand paper to achieve this partially?

 

Hi folks new to the forum (brought here because of stuttering issues). Have folks been calling into Alienware support with these issues? It would stand to reason that at least getting an open ticket with these issues would be beneficial to letting them know that these problems are happening.

I'm on my second 17R4 GTX 1080 computer with these stuttering issues. When I call into alienware support they say this is very very strange and they haven't heard of it before.

 

note mallet and not hammer

very gently

yes, but remember that copper is very soft metal, don't wanna shave away too much

ideally no sandpaper, but sometimes is required

 

Opening thread updated. i believe the stuttering issue is now fixed.

 

can i put thermal paste ontop of thermal pads? I figure this way will cover all the surface area without trying to use pressure paper

 

you dont need pressure paper, upon removing the heatsink you can see very clearly which part of the cpu is not making contact with the heatsink. the thermal paste on the copper heatsink and the cpu will tell you that.

and pressure paper does nothing more than telling you where the pressure is uneven. it will not fix the core differential problem.

 

but how do you tell if the thermal pads on the vrams and other stuff are making good contact?, i figured if i just put thermal paste everywhere, it will solve the problem. for the cpu and gpu i will use LM

 

easy. they will have distinctive component marks on the thermal pads. you can also inspect it visually or do a physical test by wiggling the pads to see if it moves. try reading the openining discussion on page 1