Alienware 15: better value than Clevo/Sager?

This is strange, and contradicts everything I've heard about Clevo/Sager and the supposed "value" they bring when it cones to performance. I've compared laptops from some different resellers with comparable specs, and this is what I found:

Alienware 15:
- i7 4710HQ
- GTX 970m
- 16GB RAM
- 128GB SSD
- 1TB 5400RPM HDD
- 1080p IPS screen
- Windows 8.1
- Killer Wireless AC
- 1 year warranty

Cost: $1800 CAD at Best Buy (usually on sale for 50-100$ off, so let's say $1750).
EDIT: $1800 CAD at the Microsoft Store with a 10% student discount (so $1620). However, this version comes without bloatware, a 4k IPS touchscreen and a 256gb SSD instead.

Sager NP8651 / Clevo P650SE:
- i7 4720HQ / 4710HQ (depending on reseller)
- GTX 970m
- 16GB RAM
- 128GB SSD
- 1TB HDD
- 1080p IPS screen
- Windows 8.1
- Killer Wireless AC
- 1 year warranty

Reflex Notebook: $1964.16 CAD
EUROCOM variant: $1857.00 CAD (add a 10% student discount, so $1671)

I didn't include any Corsair Vengeance RAM, IC Diamond thermal compound or a pci-e SSD, just the basic micron stuff. I added the two way ground shipping fee since Dell offers free in-home servicing as well. I didn't look at XoticPC or other vendors because in the end, exchange rates, shipping costs and brokerage fees basically just skyrockets the price.

Oh well, maybe I'm wrong somewhere, because this is really strange. I'd like to get some opinions from Alienware AND Clevo/Sager/Eurocom/etc users as well.

 

My vote goes towards the Alienware primarily because of the warranty support you're eligible for out of the box. Both machines have their ups and downs, but I'm more inclined to suggest you this particular model of the Alienware 15, just because you're a student and you can get a 10% discount for it: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...ure-Edition-Gaming-Laptop/productID.313548800

With this, you get the same general specs as the Best Buy AW15 BUT, the microsoft store adds:

4K UHD IPS Touchscreen
256 GB SSD instead of 128 GB

And it's still the $1799.99 price point that the Best Buy is advertising theirs for. If your school qualifies for it, you can save an additional $179.

Just my personal suggestion if you're looking for something with a few more add-ons.

 

it must be some "Canadian thing", like heavy discounts on particular things, or maybe some type of import duty?
I went to xoticpc, US site and Sager similar to yours costs there $1454.
On the same site Alienware 15 costs $1566 with similar specs, but the only GPU available is GTX965 and the only CPU available is i-5 4210h, so add at least $200 to upgrade very weak CPU and GPU in the Alienware (if you could, but you can't on exotic site) to end up with Alienware costing more than $300. Now Dell often has huge discounts on it's computers, albeit not often on Alienware in US, where I have never seen big discounts on Sager. So either there is some extra import duty on Sager, or Best Buy had huge volume discount on Alienware and pass the discount to buyers, but it seems in US Alienware is overpriced and actually I'm shocked how weak the CPU and GPU are in the model offered at Xoticpc for the price they charge, unless I'm miss reading something.

 

I would have to agree with z0mgn0es as well. The warranty/support from most other manufacturers are kind of a pain. Dell and HP are really the only companies that do the whole on site next business part warranty. This alone makes this a top choice.
Sure some of the designs from other companies are better but I have dealt with warranty support nightmares from those companies in the past and they are waaay worse then any Dellienware story you could come up with.

 

I got an Alienware, feel free to do something a little different and get the sager and clevo, and come back with your story. Any of those laptops will make you happy. I'm poor but wanted quality, so Alienware was my only choice, because of the deals that we been seeing lately. Sager and Clevo never go on sale.

 

Thanks for the replies, I though I was dreaming or something . I would never buy from Eurocom anyways after hearing some stories on this forum. The price on XoticPC is around $1500 USD if I include the two way canadian ground shipping option. That's about $1808 CAD at the time of writing this post. Add 100$ shipping and 50$ brokerage/customs fee and it basically becomes at least $200 CAD more thsn than the Alienware...

The only things making me consider the Clevo is the easy user upgradability (pci-e SSD, two 2.5 inch HDD/SSD slots, 32 GB RAM max, etc) though I doubt I'll ever need 32 GB of RAM anyways, and a decent M.2 SSD makes me happy. Plus, the Alienware 15 better utilises Nvidia's Optimus tech and has a bigger battery, something I'll cherish when I'm away from home or at school.

 

On the other hand out of 8 laptops I owned, only 2 actually ever broke down and way after warranty expired, so warranty support may be meaningful only to unlucky few who happen to end up with defective set. As a matter of fact I can't recall ever needing service support on any electronic device from TV's, DVD's, cell phones, desktops, laptops etc. during warranty period.
If OP can find both laptops for similar price, it would probably end up being personal choice, since you can't go wrong with either one IMO.

 

Wow, thanks never knew Microsoft sold the laptop themselves. I hope it also comes with Dell/Alienware's warranty. It should right?

I thought thw 4k screen wouldn't be worth it but I wont be gaming too much so that's not an issue. It's just the scaling issues that bother me. Oh well, worse case scenario I'll just set the res to 1080p when I need to work.

 

The specs that you're getting at that price point in CAD makes it worth the purchase, imo and with Microsoft's educational savings ( depending on the school you're attending ) makes the AW15 that much more appealing to purchase. Especially since Dell/Alienware sales reps in Canada are only able to provide a 5% MAX discount from the 12 I've spoken to. Lol.

There is a scaling fix that works perfectly for 1080p gaming, so you won't get that ugly black border issue. I'm sure other 4k or AW13 1440p owners can comment on this.

 

First off FYI, I'm a picky mofo. But I figured I would share some info on screens.

I have had both the 1080p and the 4K side by side.

1080p: People were saying the 1080p was ghosting more then the 4K but really its not.
They have about the same response time I have tested extensively.
I did however discover that this said "ghosting" was happening more to me when I used a 980m card with a 180w adapter.
The decreased frames were causing the appearance of more blur.

4K: Again remember Im picky. I dont really like this screen. Ya 4k is great however its MUCH more dim then the 1080p screen.
Also the colors have a strange saturation to them, very unnatural when compared to any IPS or TN screen I have encountered.
In addition because its touch screen there is a grainy/glimmer to the whole screen. You can see the texture of the actual touch film/hardware.

For me I ended up sticking with the 1080p screen. Its bright, the colors look correct, and no grainy glimmer. Plus the ghosting and response time is the same as the 4k.

 

You are exempting the important factor of Alienware - ability to haggle. This is absolutely not possible with the resellers. They simply don't do it. Why are you even buying from Best Buy? The only reason for me to "shop" at best buy is to see/get the machine without much hassle and the ability to return it without any hassle in a given time. This allows me to feel the machine before I buy it from elsewhere where it's cheaper, unless, of course, best buy's price comes out cheaper than anywhere else which is entirely possible with coupons, etc.

With the Dell sales representative, you will easily get 5% discount. If you were better at haggling, ,10% is possible. Addition of coupon that is widely available for Dell at given times is definitely a bonus. Resellers don't have such.

Once you receive the device, call back the returns department for another easy 5%. You could get up to 15% or 20% depending on your ability to haggle. Yes, this is definitely possible. You just have to be ready to be on the phone for a long time.

At the end of the day... Alienware has quite a nice service while as the resellers... they simply resell and the service they provide is kind of... eh. The original manufacturers, for example Sager, will give you excruciating pain when you have to deal with them. You will easily find the terrible customer service Sager provides to its customers.

 

Lol, the configuration in the Microsoft store is $1800 for the 4k screen, 970m, i7 processor, 16gb RAM, 256gb SSD.... It's $2600 at Dell.... WTF????

This is in CAD too before any student discount (I can get 10% off guaranteed at Microsoft)

 

I bought the Clevo/Sager/Mythlogic prior to the Alienware 15's release. I would, of course, gone with the best laptop maker in the world if I had been given a hint of the 15's upcoming drop. The Clevo laptopin my opinion, was a piece of cheap junk that would belong in your local WalMart, if it didn't have the Nvidia GPU (I returned it minus restocking fee). The thing just had such a cheap feel to it, that was far inferior to my older HP Pavilions and Spectres. The 'metal" pieces felt razor thin and would very audibly rattle when tapped. This not only includes the exterior frame but also on the palmrest pieces. Please don't make the mistake and settle for basically a Yugo with a V8 engine. Alienware (and Razer) offer the horses and the Porsche exterior.

 

Funny, I heard people saying the same stuff about Alienware over in the Clevo/Sager forums . Guess they're wrong now, I'm definitely going with the AW 15 .

 

Let us know how you like it.

 

I'm not sure why it hasn't been said- but there's a huge difference in size, weight, and looks.

I didn't want a 'gaming' looking laptop (as it looks unprofessional for uni/work).

And I wanted a laptop that's *actually* portable. I can get 5/6 hours on my P650SE, and it's slim enough to take everywhere.

Build would probably be better on the alienware, as I'm not mad about the flimsyness of the screen in particular on Clevo. Also you'll be covered by a better warranty (depending on where you buy it from).

 

Well, the Alienware isn't THAT thick anymore, just 1.3 inches I believe, and the screen is thicker and sturdier too. I'm in pretty good shape and I have a backpack that is made to withstand bulky 17 inch laptops (Ogio), so that's not an issue.

As for looks, yeah it is pretty gamer-looking but TBH I like that. I love unique designs and the Alienware really stands out from the crowd (it's why I was even considering the HP Omen for a while ).

EDIT: as for battery life, I could get the same out of the Alienware if reviews are anything to go by. Though I can't be sure until I try it for myself (especially if I'm going for the 4k model).

 

A long time ago (five years ago), Alienware owned the gaming laptop market and charged way more than they should have. Today, most people remember Alienware as overpriced and tacky behemoths.

With the advent of competitors like Asus, MSI, and Clevo, Alienware has no choice but to bring their prices to be more reasonable. They also had to branch out to different form factors like 11 and 13 inches to stand out from the pack.

From your signature, I see you want a laptop for light gaming . I advise you to stay away from pure gaming laptops, as they tend to be thicker and heavier. Most laptops can handle popular games like League of Legends, World of Warcraft, and CS:GO using the integrated graphics in the CPU. My choice would be the thin and classy Asus UX305FA, which costs $600 with a coupon code from Microsoft Store and comes with a 256 GB SSD as well.

A good compromise between gaming capability and price: The Eurocom Shark 4 (Clevo N150SD). For about $900 CAD with a coupon, you get an i7-4720HQ, GTX 960M, and one of the best displays on the market. However, the Eurocom requires you to have your own operating system as none will be pre-installed for you. The downsides also include inferior build quality, customer support, and warranty.

 

Zachary you're definitely thinking of the old Alienware. The Clevo definitely has better build quality. My roomate just got one and I will too. It's a great Laptop. He got the 15.6 model and it is a way better laptop all around. Especially in the fan department. Look up a youtube video of the Alienware when it's fans start it's like a Porshe revving up

 

Because the P650SE is a better all-around machine than the AW 15

 

How so? You could have said the same with Alienware when they used to be much more expensive.

I need the laptop for 3D modeling and rendering as well, and for it to last me at least 3-4 years for sure. The Asus is out of the question. As for Eurocom, I've heard some really bad reviews about them and I'm not willing to buy from them unless I get enough people to share their good experiences with the company. A good warranty is also well appreciated if I'm gonna keep it for that long.

I wouldn't say better at all (especially the screen) but it's probably not bad either. I've seen some great positive reviews on the Alienware (just look at notebookcheck), so what do you mean by the "old Alienware"?

 

I own an Alienware 14, 15, and 18 so I should have a good barometer of their quality. You could hand me 200,000 dollars, today, and the Alienware 15 would still be my number one choice for a portable gaming laptop. There are no competitors as far as style, build, power, warranty, and community. The 15's fans are a godsend compared to the 14. I barely even hear them in operation. The Clevo was straight up pedestrian in it's build, aesthetics, and support. If you are comfortable with build quality on par with generic Wal-Mart brands, then you must be far easier to please than I. The HP Omen is the only real competitor, as far as clean looks, but it only is equipped with the 860m (and mirror-like screen)...........

I owned this HP, of several years ago, and it crushes the Clevo in build quality. They both have the similar brownish brushed metal, but the HP didn't have the rattles and flimsy backlid. Don't you think an enthusiast product deserves a little more quality than a consumer-level HP Pavilion?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OEL898/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

It has more RAM and storage capability, it has modded BIOS and the whole range of possibilities that opens up, it's thinner and lighter, it has much easier access to the CPU and GPU for self-service, it has better GPU cooling, it's quieter under load, it has a num pad.

 

I'm actually going with the Asus g751 now. I'll let you know how it compares when I get it. Honestly you've been pretty lucky so far. Alienware is definitely not worth the investment. I have the new 17 and the fans are crazy loud even when playing a game like Depth on Med settings with the 970m. I could see why you're not a fan of the Clevo. It's still solidly built, and The Alienware's I've gotten are far less superior in build quality hahaha

What Alienware used to be of course

 

Of course, but what made it better?

Don't need that much RAM anyways, not looking into overclocking, with thinner and lighter comes flimsier and flexible, I don't care for upgrading and if something goes wrong with either I expect the manufacturer to take responsibility and fix it (while it's under warranty obviously) and I could care less about the number pad. I will agree cooling and fan noise seems to be better though, but I've lived with an HP laptop that goes up to 70-80 db when the damn thing turns on, so anything will seem quiet to me .

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is just because it has those "advantages" doesn't mean it's always worth the higher price in mine or other people's cases.

 

Everything that made them no-compromise enthusiast machines:

Upgradeable CPU & GPU
i7 Extreme Edition
SLI/CrossFire
No Optimus
No UEFI Secure Flash firmware lockdown bullcrap
Unlocked BIOS & vBIOS
Moar power (no power handling restrictions and underpowered PSU, able to utilize 2x330W bricks)
4 RAM slots
2 2.5" bays
Internal ODD and external battery
Better cooling
Better build

Just because you personally don't care doesn't make the Clevo not objectively better. As for build quality, thinner & lighter does not necessarily make it worse. Material choice is just as if not important (see Apple). And in terms of internal build, Clevo blows Alienware away. The new AW models are not as well built as the last gen (18/17 R1/14) or the one before that (M18x R2/M17x R4/M14x R2). At the same time, the P65xSx is one of the best built Clevo notebooks so far, or so I've heard.

 

The Clevo, at least built by Mythlogic, also cost a little more (It was pretty maxed out, though).


DEBIT CARD
MYTHLOGIC CORP 800-735-2515 MI 277206181996
77862
-$2,780.99

The bottom requires more effort to service, than the Alienware models.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...Pdzn5ARjX0sis-0rVwP0qkhVVRz78vvdCDczsmJ8aF7I-

I didn't care for the cheap plastic chrome portion, either.

http://17c4dcd7f91259d8cc66-f5932f6...ontent/uploads/sites/2/Eurocom-M5-chassis.jpg

The hinges were also not very secure, which is evidenced by tapping the screen (easily moved/rattled).

 

"More effort"...you mean you have to remove a few more screws to take off the bottom cover? What about accessing the CPU & GPU for repasting? On the Clevo the entire process takes 5 min from start to finish. On the Alienware you have to take the entire notebook apart a la ASUS.

 

In the end, it depends what people really look for in a powerful gaming laptop. What I mean to imply is that a lot of those pros don't matter to some people, and that it's really hard to objectively deem one notebook better than the other (definitely agree with you there). Have you seen Hardware Cannuck's video review of the Eurocom m5 Pro / Clevo p650se? The screen bends like crazy which worries me a little bit. Again, I've never owned any so I can't say anything for sure (so can't anyone who hasn't owned/tried both exact models).

Also, Alienwares used to be much thicker, heavier and more expensive, and people criticized them for it. Now they're changing like many other laptop manufacturers to fit the needs for the general market. Either way, there are pros and cons for each side.

 

I agree, all your points here go in favor of the Clevo instead of the Alienware. However, a lot of these pros target enthusiast users rather than casual ones, and may not be as relevant to the OP as the points below. Even I admit, the locked vBIOS and the lack of an extra HDD bay suck.

The Clevo P651SE ran for 2 hours, 20 minutes in NotebookCheck's wifi test. By comparison, the Alienware 15 got 4 hours, 26 minutes due to Optimus. From a battery life standpoint, I see Optimus as a positive rather than a negative.

The Clevo P651SE's i7-4870HQ reached a maximum of 100 °C under load, while the GTX 970M hit 74 °C. The Alienware 15's i7-4710HQ hit 83°C and its 970M reached 67°C. I give the point to Alienware for temperatures.

The review for the P651SE states about build quality: "All things considered, Clevo managed a solid 15-inch notebook that can compete with the rivals, but it is not enough for the top spot because of some small issues. Asus and Alienware are still superior in this section." I agree with their evaluation based on the stability of the display hinges and base unit. Even though I would also agree Alienware's build quality dropped from their last generation, they still have an advantage over barebones which sacrifice build for modularity and upgradability.

 

Btw, according to notebookcheck, both systems are almost equally as loud (Clevo has a small edge under load), and the chassis is cooler on the Alienware. The internal temps are better on the Clevo though. In the end, they're not THAT different....

 

Back to OP, ofc a small boutique like Xotic or Eurocom is gonna charge more for upgrades than a big OEM like Dell. Not to mention, the bloatware-subsidized Windows OS is basically free for Dell, while Clevo's OS has no bloatware.

Now if you get a base model P650SE at, say, Eurocom with the 10% discount and get OS and hardware upgrades aftermarket, it'll be cheaper than an identically specced pre-configured AW15 I'm pretty sure.

 

I value that battery life (even if small) as a student.

Actually, Microsoft has the AW 15 in their online store - without the bloatware. Its 1800$ plus a 10% student discount for the 4k screen and a 256gb ssd. (I editied the original post)

 

Difference in battery life is due to AW15's +53% capacity battery. With BIOS mod, Clevo can be tweaked for longer runtime.

 

And again, unless more people step up to defend Eurocom, there isn't a big chance I'll buy from them directly... Reflex notebook seems ok but idk if they're all that good since not many people know about them. The Canadian dollar isn't doing so well right now... if it was I'd order from XoticPC.

 

How? I understand the purpose and basics of a BIOS, but I've never really looked into it that far. Does it have anything to do with underclocking?

I guess I can always search it up

 

Undervolting and underclocking various parts of the processor, disabling cores if you have the option

 

I guess that impacts performance. I think I'd rather have a larger capacity battery

 

Geez.... the Alienware IS really a pain to open of you want to clean out the fans or replace the thermal paste.... I'm wondering if that'll harm the long term usability of the system.... the Clevo/Eurocom seems better after all the warranties wear off. Damn, this just makes my decision harder to make.

 

Hey, how are your temperatures and fan noiseon the AW 15? Also, what BIOS version are you on? It seems A00 is better in general for the 970m.

 

I still find that 100C under load as complete BS. Mine never hit past 84C when multitasking on two different games at max settings while overclocking GPU (which caps at 72C).

As for the battery life wifi test with 4K screen, I can get 3.2-3.3 hours when doing power saving and using minimal amounts of processing power while surfing the web.

It shouldn't. The parts are quite sturdy when I had to refurbish a 2014 Alienware 14. Problem is that there's probably about 20 screws to take apart, not to mention the complete teardown when reaching the GPU and CPU. Then you have to put it all back together and reconnect all those ribbon cables and hope you did not damage any of them or forget them on the way to putting it back together. (I made this mistake once and forgot to reconnect a fan, so I had to tear it down again...)

 

Random question: how is your 4k screen dealing with Windows? Not just gaming of course.

 

Works great. The only complaint is certain applications not supporting higher resolutions such as Skype and anything not ready for 4K.

 

There is your fan noise This is on a 17 which has better cooling

 

Kinda hard to tell from the video... Is that bad? I'm not used to high powered notebooks. The one I have right now is a Dell Inspiron 15r with a 2nd gen Intel core i3 ULV processor. It's basically silent, but the one I had before was handed down to me and it roared to 60-70 decibels on startup... I couldn't even use Office on it....

 

I thought so. It's definitely loud. After about 40 minutes it get really really annoying. I have AKG Q701's and the fans are still annoying

 

For what it's worth the Clevo isn't loud at all with max fan speeds. Sure, you can hear the fans, but even the rather pitiful laptop speakers will drown them out at a reasonable volume. If you are wearing closed headphones it will be a non issue, and if you are wearing open headphones it will still probably be ok. I haven't done much stress testing yet, but I did max the 4 core turbo to 3.6 ghz and run the intel XTU stress test for 5 minutes and the temps got to around 87 C without using any external notebook cooler or optimizing the CPU voltage at all (and that is with 100% cpu load and all 4 cores at 3.6 ghz).

 

You're doing it wrong. Quit being cheap and buy a laptop cooler. I have two, myself, one for work and one for home. I would feel a little guilty without one, as I'm sure the added heat lowers longevity. The bottom panel get a little hot, as well.


http://www.amazon.com/CM-Storm-SF-1...?ie=UTF8&qid=1431428124&sr=8-1&keywords=sf-15

 

I get that laptop coolers are really useful in some situations, but I think a laptop should be able to cool itself pretty well without sounding like a jet engine without one. But the Clevo isn't THAT much better according to many reviews.

 

If anybody is going to comment on a laptop's noise level (load or idle), please include some numbers to back it up... And I don't mean a video or an approximation. There are apps for phones and tablets that can measure sound in decibels. They're not as accurate as an actual sound meter, but they do the trick. I usually measure around the keyboard deck (not directly on it to avoid noise from vibrations) and 10 cm in front of fans to get a better idea on how to compare laptops without actually trying them.