Alienware 15 R1 Throttles to 0.78 GHz (XTU says thermal but...)

Rig Configuration: Intel 4720 HQ, nVidia 980 M GT, 240 W Power brick, A00 ( for a good fan profile and to prevent machine from drawing power from the battery since I have a 240 W brick), Kingston HyperX 1600 MHz CL-9, 250 GB Samsung EVO 850 SSD + 1TB HDD, and finally a CoolerMaster MasterGel Maker thermal paste, with CM Storm SF 17 cooling pad (arriving soon)

State: Laptop is 1.5 years old without any damage (physical), Laptop has never been over/ under clocked unless it has been done so by the turbo boost feature, which is by design and has never been over/ under volted

Mode: High Performance, power plugged in

Problem: Under load the laptop throttles down to 0.78 GHz and then sticks there (instead of boosting up), within minutes of starting the load - Witcher 3, Gears of War 4 and now even Dota 2. This didn't happen till last year, as I never experienced extreme frame rate reduction while playing Dota 2, as I do now (pretty sure Dota 2 updates haven't increased its requirement of resources this much); didn't play heavy games like Witcher 3 last year. This issue has destroyed my gaming experience. Intel XTU shows that throttling is thermal, so I switched to a better thermal paste (one of the best rather), and it can be seen from the attached snapshot that the throttle starts somewhere between 79 - 82 C (is it even possible? PROCHOT is 97 C right?); please look to the left as it indicates the stats as per the position of the bar, the stats on the right side show that the CPU of the rig is still throttling at 78 C.

http://i.imgur.com/9p8uad3.png

Has the BIOS been programmed to initiate throttling at such temps? If yes then what is the workaround? If not please tell me what to do? I really look forward to hear some actionable suggestions from this community and trusted blue blooded Alienware experts.

I once tested the veracity of the type of throttle indicated by XTU (BIOS) using a system logger (logging feature of throttlestop); seemed it was ensuing from power (despite 240 W brick) rather than temps. Have never seen CPU package draw power above 42 W consistently, eventually throttling starts (XTU indicates thermal; can be so - thermal throttle causes power consumption to drop, but then why always around 40+ W?).

PS: I have been an owner of high-end Dell and Alienware laptops since 2008 - First XPS then Alienware m17x R4 and finally Alienware 15 R1; never had such a problem with the first two. My experience with Dell Technicians and Support Staff in India has been very poor (both my Alienware purchases were made in the US, and then I shifted to India). Dell Premium Support staff and technicians have shown generous amount of apathy, do not see the problem at hand (have to explain multiple times, and then also their understanding seems a bit off the mark) and are unable to make logical deductions, and make personal comments (using statements such as "you know more than us what can we do", referring to me and my suggestions, as I currently work for the development department of a company that makes an essential component of any computer, "sorry we can't solve your problem", "this is as per design" and aren't ready to listen to good reason), whilst providing little to no solution to my problem. I am not sure how loyal a customer and an Alienware advocate can I be now, given that price of Alienware and its waranty extensions are exhorbitant in India and such is the level of expertise, service and support. One can easlily find similar horrible experiences of Alienware product owners in India, you are just a search away. I apologize, if it sounds like a rant but trust me it isn't one! Please help!!

 

@NeR0FiD0 Almost all those first gen BGA models from AW have massive processor throttling problems. Look inside the AW 15/17 sub forum threads. @VICKYGAMEBOY can as well tell you more about this problem. He have the record with 6 Motherboard replacement without manage to fix the massive throttling problems.

Btw Welcome to the forum

 

Hey @Papusan, I have read his rants. Though I am not sure how much will that be of help, or how much @VICKYGAMEBOY will be willing to help. I have read the blogs. Dell India guys are incorrigible. But the question remains, how do you workaround that problem, now that it is there.

 

ALso the 6 motherboards being spoken of here are refurbs. Probably traded in because of that exact reason.

Its still not known what exactly causes it. But some seem to have better luck when they cool the PCH. I didnt had throttle issues with my R1 so I was lucky. You could opt for a system replacement.

 

Let me tell you my story. They replaced my board once and the only thing that changed was the ASIC percentage of my GPU from 82 to 71% (I am worse off now). Obviously that did not solve my problem. Then the ticket was forwarded to a level 2 manager Rohit Jain, who claimed that I am playing such shennanigans to get an upgrade and asked for Service Tags of notebooks in which the same issue was there and they were replaced, as I gave the reference of @VICKYGAMEBOY story and a couple of other stories that are available online (especially oustide India). He basically judged my intentions and asked for proof of my claims and asked me to produce precedents as in a court of law. Then the call was escalated to one Mr. Anuj Mishra (Senior Support Resolver by designation) who initially discounted the issue and took a lot of explanation to even understand that the issue happens when power is plugged in and laptop isn't in power saver mode. He claimed that he escalated the call to the Design team, and returned back saying that this is as expected, and no further replacements of motherboards (refurbished ones!) will be done as well. I got emotional and angered, he suggested I was getting personal. I suggested that they didn't even do a proper investigation of this issue, and are relying on the data I am giving them. He said our guy who came to replace your board ran the BIOS test and did not find any issue! At this time I lost it. I think Dell India should mention it from now on in the warranty clause that refurbished parts will be provided iff the BIOS test indicates a H/W issue. Now, I work at a respectable firm in high technology, and have an Ok understanding of such issues, so I suggested him certain course of action; and persisted that there is an issue and it exists. Then Mr Anuj got personal and said " sir what can we do, you know more than us". First off they are relying on my explanation of the problem and not doing their own technical investigation (relying on a freakin BIOS test, who in the right mind would do that), second they don't have customer empathy, third off their employees are inadequately trained to understand the issue and finally they don't know how to talk. If this is as per the design, then the design itself was flawed and hence a motherboard replacement (might correct the issue, relying on silicon lottery) or a new revision board should be provided. " It is as per design" (that means design is flawed), solves their problem but not mine. I don't know what to do, my future steps are to escalate on social media, put this question on quora, and mail their grievances team. In India customer protection laws aren't that strong, so I am not sure approaching consumer court will be useful or not (but if all else fails I will do that as well). No design would be intended towards downclocking (throttling) when temps are low and load is increasing, instead of increasing the clock to match the load when temps are fine. Come to think of it, even my work laptop - lenovo t460 doesn't decrease its clock under load when it is plugged in with High performance and temps are as high as 88.

I see alienware reps in both alienware arena and notebook review have started to ignore the pleas of Alienware 15 r1 users along these lines as well.

 

I think this below is still valid. Dell threw in the towel and gave up fixing all the throttle mess.

 

This BIOS is a total mess

 

Did you try disabling BD PROCHOT in ThrottleStop yet? Try that and do not run XTU. It is best to only use one program at a time to adjust your CPU performance.

 

@unclewebb, I did the same (removed the check from BD PROCHOT), and I had the most amazing (really amazing) discovery, all thanks to you. The trottle didn't come up as Thermal in XTU anymore, it showed up as power limit throttle (100%), this fits well with my previous hypothesis as well, as I rarely saw power consumption to be even in late 30s. 100% PLT, despite a 240 W power brick, showed up even when temps reached momentary highest - 84, typical range was 74-80 cause of thermal paste and cooling systems; this is contrary to what was observed earlier (when throttling showed up as Thermal at low temps). Please refer to the snapshot below:

http://i.imgur.com/WLEbBR0.png

A thing to notice is the trapezoidal oscillation (orange colored), indicating how unstable the CPU clock is and CPU spends more time at lower frequency.

At this point, I am unable to make any inference, and I am counting on inputs from experts like you. BTW this time around the lowest I hit was around 1 GHz, but the highest that I got under load was actually equal to the base frequency around 2.6 GHz. It seemed turbo boost never kicked in under load.
Also, I do not use XTU to perform any type of tuning but to record performance graphs so that i know what was happening. So it is like a background GUI based perf logger, with easy time stamp navigation. I was actually waiting for your reply on Alienware Arena.

PS: This is my second motherboard (refurbished), they replaced the first one, which had the same throttling related issue (to 0.78 GHz) and showed up as thermal; and now the tech support Dell India guys are saying that it is as per design basically (thermal throttling under normal temps when system is loaded), and so they won't even try with a new refurbished board, let alone provide a replacement. All this while I was doing my investigation and providing snapshots they didn't ask for my laptopn and perform their tests even once. They are claiming that H/W is fines as the BIOS tests are passing. I feel they should write it in their warranty agreement that part replacements (even refurbished ones) will be provided only iff BIOS test fail on H/W, this is ridiculous.

PPS: I am also surpised to see that alienware reps in both alienware arena and notebook review have started to ignore the pleas of Alienware 15 r1 users along these lines as well, and aren't providing their valuable inputs.

 

Use throttlestop and disable CPU power reporting by using powercut, now your CPU can consume virtually unlimited power without throttling

 

first off im sorry that i was stuck with my own works and lifes not same as before.. next thing.. my rants were kinda different.. i had to force them to understand the issue, which was a rare case, since they dont want to admit anything.. and regarding the solution, reducing the PCH temp is the only option on R1 system.. try to reachout @judal57 , we both tested few stuffs, which proved little positive, apart from that no matter what you try to do, it still will throttle, cuz of experience im saying.. @Papusan knows my story regarding the motherboard changes and all the tests ive done.. so please go and fight with DELL.. simple logic.. i wouldnt have got my R2 if i was sitting in forums and talking nice to them.. trust me it wont work.. atleast for DELL india.. i had to wait almost 6 months.. every singe day i call them.. and keep in touch with most senior persons.. went to DELL HQ more than 15 times, just to talk to the product development team, even after all that, someother guy took my reference and went.. they straight away denied that my replacement happend just because there was a water spill on my system.. which is BS IMO. or not sure.. so try..

 

I hear you bro. My rants are similar, only difference is that I am trying to workaround as well (only if customer protection laws were stronger in India). As you can see from my response to @rinneh. I have fought with them, and now they aren't ready to even provide a refurbished board. I stay in Hyderabad, and their country service hub is in Bangalore (near Koramangala, I think you stay there), so me reaching out to their service HQ is impossible. I am trying my best. I have read your complete blog and understand the struggle that you had to go through bro. Can you PM me some inputs that you have around this area, is it worth registering a complaint to [email protected]? If you know many people with the same issue, we can file a petition under consumer court, it is a simple online petition.
Each time after an argument should I let them close the ticket, and re-log a new ticket/ complaint, because when the ticket number is same the same team handles the call, and apparently as per them the issue has been discussed with the design team and nothing further can be done. I feel starting afresh is better every time.
I must mention that explaining the issue every time to the same team is excruciating.
Also, I am confused at the problem level itself. As per the inputs given by @unclewebb it seems that the real throttle is due to Power, and it might be BIOS coding that shows it up as Thermal. Just a hunch.
BTW thanks for looking at my blog post. Looking forward to your help with this issue.

 

Yeah i took one more guy with me before, kinda odd that he was also from hyderabad, but sad part, the product development team manager was not there, but i told them to take care of his case, they gave him refurb motherboard.. i lost his contact. after changing my phone.. but again.. i got a mail later on saying.. im not suppose to refer anymore person to them.. i dont know what to say.. but again.. ill try to do the online petition.. i understand for us its more expensive thn other countries.. yet worst replies from the support team.. saturday im going to DELL HQ again.. my laptop is still there.. having TPM firmware issues... ask them for a refurb motherboard.. open ur backplate and keep a laptop cooler below.. and try to cool ur PCH and see if ur getting throttling.. run it on balanced mode first.. atleast ur GPU should be 99%.. let me know how it goes..

 

Still under warranty?

 

haha Nope.. never buying warranty from them... just skipping the newer models.. will wait for ryzen and vega.. ahha

 

Moving onto desktop, heya? Have you installed latest Windows 726 build?

 

Lol nope, i dont like release preview branch, one desktop rig runs on Fast Insider, Build 15031 which was released yesterday, and another one with stable build ends with 693..

 

There's a new build that fixes problems from 693 its called 726.

 

Yes im aware of that build.. im way ahead of that build.. 15031 is latest build from MS. test builds.. buggy.. i just do testing and help with the feedback hub.. and regarding 726 its not yet out for normal users.. its only for insider with build option set to Release preview Ring.. check if ur on that..

 

See this https://support.microsoft.com/en-in/help/4000825/windows-10-and-windows-server-2016-update-history

 

@Papusan, @VICKYGAMEBOY and @judal57. I just got a call from them after escalating to [email protected] (it turned out to be the same DL, which is used for followups and complaints). They are saying this is as per design, and no further boards will be issued, and asking me to forget about replacements altogether. Earlier they had asked me proof in the form of service tag ids (pre and post replacement both), as proof about my claims that replacement has been done in some cases, and I was planning to ask @VICKYGAMEBOY about his tags on a PM. Apparently service team has been instructed to not provide even refurbished replacements for such cases (rather when BIOS doesnt detect a H/W problem, guess they should mention that in warranty agreement). So, my problem cannot be corrected using Silicon lottery. They should ideally do a product recall - Do we have link where in such issues have been reported in bulk?
Their product design team (I do not know where they are located) says that this is as per design, this laptop is meant to be run on balanced mode to get the best "performance" (seems counter intuitive/ oxymorononish; please appreciate the saracasm). Why will someone buy an Alienware if he wants to do document editing and watch movies, gaming requires high performance. I will be posting a snapshot of the mail once they send it to me. This suggestion proves false advertising on Alienware's part and they can be booked, please suggest links where you have seen Alienware 15 and high performance together on their official website and links where it is mentioned that gaming requires high performance or high performance gaming on their official website.
Do we have a youtube video detailing this problem (not the one by @VICKYGAMEBOY playing witcher)?
I will first escalate this on social media, and then look at other options.
Do we know how people outside India are being treated, what was done in their cases?

 

I don't think it is a BIOS issue, seems like BIOS has been coded to cover-up another issue.

 

Can you please give me the specifics/ steps/ options to select on Throttlestop.

 

@unclewebb, I did what you asked me to do. I am slightly confused about the next steps. It would be great if you can provide any suggestion. Sorry to bug you.

 

Both firmware and the machine is Crippled by Design!! Sorry buth so it is Dellienware support world wide know it, but all of they push everything under the carpet!!

Download TS. Read the included ReadMe file to learn how to enable PowerCut on your 4th or 5th Gen Core i CPU. Same, you will find how to put up TS for your Haswell i7 BGA in TS guide or Youtube.

 

0 ownership from Dell

 

Official response from Dell (Alienware):

Initially they asked me to choose from one of the given options, as can be seen below

 

I selected option one, and below was the response (I should pay for the visit) despite the fact that I have warranty. Also, if you look closely their guy says, "This issue is as per design".

 

Their suggestion, use th laptop in balanced mode, refer the image for details. A laptop which is advertised as "High Performance, Gaming". Basically, they had a poor BIOS, and they forgot to add a heatsink on the third most important chip - PCH, which heats up and causes power deficiency (my understanding). They didn't do a product recall, because of flawed design and it is customer's hard-luck that he bought the laptop. This suggestion indirectly implies that all this laptop can be used for are movies, web surfing, and nothing really hardcore. If the customers wanted to do that they would have purchased something 3x cheaper. Also, when I asked over the call "what was their design meant to be", they said, that information cannot be shared, as information that is required for the customer to make a decision (ie reqd. to fool customers) has been provided. Then how will a customer know that an " issue" is as per their design?

 

Just as expected. Did you really think you got a different response than this from Dell? AW is DELL now.


You can post here http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...re-notebook-system-replacement-thread.781015/

 

@Alienware-Alex @Alienware-K_Castro @Alienware-L_Porras @AlienwareDomain

Any comments? Any inputs will be much appreciated!

 

Hello everyone, I live in Vienna in Austria. I saw your call @NeR0FiD0 and came here to universalize this event, also talked before with @VICKYGAMEBOY because of this issues on youtube. I have an Alienware 15 R1 and exactly the same issues. My laptop is also 1.8 years old and still under warranty.

I had power limit and thermal throttling ( even in low temperature ), overheating because of; different CPU frequencies, hard FPS drops, bugs issues. As a result, there are bad gaming experience and rendering performance like all users. One year ago battery and adapter were (with 240) changed but of course it was not a solution.







Gameplay videos were recorded before first repair. As you can see in case of smooth gaming experience, which I don't need for this kind of hardcore laptops, I underclocked the CPU max 1.2 ghz. I found around 30 fps without any problem for couple of minutes, but I received again same power and thermal throttling issues even working on 1.2 ghz CPU frequency with 82 C. Temperature values were insane around 97C in default max 3.5ghz!

Two months ago I sent my laptop to Dell repair center in Germany to fix all those issues. Firstly motherboard changed and temp values reduced little ( max85C from XTU ) but problems still existed in normal temps in 71C and intrestingly only visible while gaming! After that, they offered me an other repair! This week I will receive my laptop secondly and inform you later after I tested.

All I can say that the better quality thermal paste or undervolt etc you can reduce temps but it does not fix problems. The throttle problem occurs randomly even in normal temps, which is not acceptable. As you all said, this is completely some kind of design flaw or about power, because of this they are changing some parts in repair center everytime again and again to fix that issue. Anyway if you under warranty you have a legal right and you can force them with your proofs. I am fighting with them for a refund in EU too.

 

from my experience with AW15 r1 i can teel you this.... dont try anything with the processor, is just a lost cause. use ThrottleStop or intel XTU to set all 4 cores at 3ghz, make an undervolt, something like -60mv ( you need to find the perfect value) and if you have good gpu temps make a gpu overclock.
in my case i have set 4 cores at 3ghz and OCed my gtx 970m +174mv and + 300mhz on memory and i dont have any throttling at all. temperatures are good ( i repasted mine with thermal Grizzly conductonaut ) but you can use kryonaut, is safer and easy to apply. if you have any question about any process, you can ask me

 

@Generalkty the video is a little bit old but you can see my temperatures

 

@judal57 thanks for your infos. Your temps seem ok. Before first repair I tried this but only few games were playable when I made undervolt and set all 4cores even at 2.5ghz in fhd res. I used XTU. After first repair games performed well especially all cores at 3ghz (max 85c) but everytime I was getting those issues even in normal temps (70c), when I was playing stable on medium or low graphics settings in 4k res. The question is why there is a problem in 4k but not in 1080p or sometimes in 2k at same temperature. I know that after few months later problem will occur in every temps and resolutions. Tommorrow I am getting my laptop back.

 

Hello! I'm new here and I have aw 15r1 with i7-4710, 970m and 180w supply. I undervolt my cpu -90mV and set 4 cores at 3.3ghz. My case is when I'm playing games, my cpu is stable at 3.3ghz and I only get throttle to 2.5ghz for a few second and then back to 3.3ghz, cpu temp and gpu temp are both normal (about 75*C). But when I stress test with prime95 and heaven or furmark, my cpu temp goes up to nearly 90*C before it throttles to 0.8ghz (7x*C). So should I contact Dell and ask them to check my lap?

 

You should contact with Dell. It seems same problem like us. How old is your laptop?

E6853 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

 

Thanks! My laptop is 1.5 years old and still under warantty.

Sent from my m2 using Tapatalk

 

3,3ghz is to high for that cpu ... i suggest you to put all cores to 3ghz. you are not going to note at least 1 fps less with 3ghz on all cores }. also i think -90mv is too much for the cpu, but if is stable to you NICE . prime 95 is an unreal escenario, try with something like heaven engine

 

more resolution means more cpu usage, that is why you have more cpu temperature. Dell cant help you with what do you really need, a repaste with a high end thermal paste, dont spend money with technicians, do it yourself. is really easy, you only need patience and be careful. i made a quick video of the full disassembly using my brother smartphone hahaha i will ask him to give me the video... if he have it, i will upload it. with better thermal paste you will have less heat and more room for OC. only 1 question ... what cpu and gpu do you have ? and what power supply ?

 

After first repair I have no more cpu temp issue. Under warranty I spend nothing. You are right but with graphic configurations I can manage cpu usage and temps, there is no such different while playing 4k. If temps ok and cpu usage low on 4k, why am I getting issues? 4710hq, 980m, 240watt power supply

E6853 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

 

I don't wanted to extend myself, but I have to this time. You are having a thermal issue, but you can't see it. This models and the new models use something.called Intel thermal framework...... In short words is an app that underclock the cpu if ANYTHING on your motherboard reach an unsafe temperature. In this case could be 1. The pch or 2. Ram
I told you this because I tested this model from 0 to 100%... I understand that you are not having really high cpu temperatures, but the deal is that the gpu is really near to pch and the cpu is really near to ram modules, So if you reduce the temperature of cpu and gpu as far as you can, you will reduce the temperature of ram and pch as a second effect.... You can ask dell for a repaste, and then prey to the technician to use your own thermal paste "thermal grizzly kryonaut" he is not.going to apply liquid metal ever.... For the moment, you can improve pch Temps by using a 2mm tick thermal pad above the uncovered chip near to wifi module. O hope I could help you to solve this as I did

 

You don't need or being forced to install Intel® DPTF. The machine shall work without the driver. This thermal management driver is intended for thin flimsy laptops with weak cooling. No need for it if the cooling is top notch. And of course isn't down clocking a viable fix. Only a way to hide the underlying problem!! Aka the massive processor throttling problems.

 

What i find interesting still to this day is why not every user has this issue. What the variable is what is causing this.

 

You should not disregard that Dell may have saved money on the components on MB. Same with poorly written firmware. This does not need to affect everyones machines.
A lot can be explayned by the firmware. I'm sure @Lord Zog know the whole reason for all this mess. From his earlier posting. And I know he is good on bios aka the whole firmware package.

 

not every user play demanding games or know what means throttling ... a lot of people only buy gaming laptops for his great look.

 

yeah but I used 3 motherboard with Overclocks for 3d rendering, gaming, music production etc. My systems get used 12~14 hours a day. I cannot be just the lucky one with 3 good motherboards in a row (2 AW15R1 units and 1 motherboard swap).

 

is not that I do not trust your word, but I have to see that to believe it
aida 64 extreme edition, stability test with all Squares marked and a medium OC on GPU. i suppose you are going to say you dont have this model yet....
the Haswell model have the problem

 

You have won the Dell's MB lottery bro Anyway... There are hard facts that a good portion of the AW owners of this ****y, purchased a fully throttle gamebook that will never be fixed. And Dellienware tech support and HQ washes their hands and saying this mess is by design and goes further with the next model. While the scammed customer sits back with a bad taste in his mouth and have lost the case completely Hard facts are hard to avoid. It's all about the customer hard earned money. Pretty sad.

 

Thanks for your reply. I've tried to put my core to 3ghz with -60mv and I still get throttle to 0.8ghz for a few second when i run occt with heaven unigine. After 5 minutes, it gets stable at 2.5ghz with 7X*C.

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