Alienware 13 Pre-Release Speculation Thread

Ok, maybe "smokes" isn't the best choice, but it beats it regardless. Point being that if you can get a thin and light, and get performance equal or better than the best mobile SLI rig, anything more is probably overkill, and overkill for what the mobile CPU can manage anyhow, especially if it's a lower wattage/lower performing one.

In any case, glad to see AW isn't going this route. I guess it's good to have at least an option with a dock, meets the needs of some, but clearly not a choice for everyone.

 

But, overkill is such a sweet thing when done correctly...

 

LOL, it sure is. Overkill is good, but only added expense if you can't take advantage of the performance.

If AW added one of the soldered quad cores in there I'd be interested even. But ULV is just making me shake my head. Maybe with Broadwell, there will be a 35W quad core that performs better than and runs cooler than the current 35W i7 quads. Would be a great fit. Also, considering they may a full quad core Atom CPU, surprised Intel doesn't make a ULV with four full cores instead of hyperthreading.

 

I tend to feel this way myself to a large degree. The GPU would have to be seriously under-powered to the internal GPU for it to really make sense, and then you would have an anemic laptop to begin with and are paying probably some significant coin to get an external device to make it truly enjoyable. I find the idea interesting with potential, but it has to have a CPU on-board to begin with that is significantly bottlenecked to make any sense, which takes the whole question back to what kind of weak laptop GPU do you start with and why? No way this makes any sense to me unless they are opting for full-on i7 quads, or it's a very cost-effective mutant SLI setup that gives a decent boost at the desk.

Wonder when Dell will quit being coy and just come out with final specs and what is going on with the adapter and device for it.

 

A lot of you guys don't have a lot of faith in the Broadwell ULV?


They must have done some internal tests, and made some conclusions about this. Otherwise they wouldn't have moved so far in the process with it. We've seen Intel focusing more and more on low power and with M series being fanless, who knows - maybe ULV will soon be the benchmark for which all laptops are supposed to behave.


What scares me is how it will fair in games I enjoy like Total War and Guild Wars 2. Games that are much more CPU heavy than GPU heavy, both at the same time, if we are talking even 20% power improvements over last gen i7 ULV, we might be on to something here. Secondly, the idea of having 8 hours(lets say 6 hours, just to be conservative) of battery also will put this machine into a completely different echelon. What concerns me now is if they will skimp on quality. Will we be able to upgrade msata? What about the aluminium construction?



I see this product as a laptop for people people who already have a gaming rig. I envision that the folks who are just having a main system will go for 15'' or 17''. In that sense, I am not so concerned about reducing settings on a mobile 13''. Particularly not if I can count on it lasting a long time, with two fans instead of 1, and made with a conservative thickness for no throttling. I've toyed around with some friends Acer ulv laptops with dedicated radeon graphics, and let me tell you - it's outragous how a lot of game doesn't take that much advantage of the CPU compared to the GPU. Still, that is not to say that a ulv will not be a no-go for other titles. For example, they are going to announce the next total war here on the 22th of september. Whatever it is, I imagine it wont fair well on this little guy. If so, then we have to ask ourselves, is there any merit to a gaming laptop that can only play certain titles well? Does the benefits of mobility and lower heat outweigh the cons?

I've owned powerful ultrathin laptops long enough now to know that Razer Blade and it's ilk would be too much of a headache for me despite being a superior product. Too many times have I pushed a system too far to seeing the reduced lifespan in effect. I haven't seen any other small gaming laptops that is so conservative on the thickness. M13 seems to be one of the few.

 

We will have to wait and see, it should cope ok with such titles but they may not be the strong point, it's wait and see on the benchmarks time.

 

*shudders and vomits in mouth a little bit* The trouble with that is that there are millions of people that want their laptop to be their gaming rig, not some makeshift abortion as a partial substitute for a legitimate beast. If that becomes reality we will see a very bitter ending to laptop gaming for many currently happy laptop gamers and high performance laptop enthusiasts. I certainly won't throw any of my money away on garbage like that.

This is also counter-intuitive. Moving to 3K and 4K display on systems that do not have enough power, or just barely have enough power, to function respectably at those resolutions is really crazy. Game developers would have to totally dumb everything down tremendously to the detriment of all gamers, or continue moving forward with game development at the exclusion of laptop owners. They already have anemic smartphones and tablets for people that want stuff like that. Why on earth would they want to unilaterally ruin everything for folks that find no value whatsoever in products like that?

I say no merit whatsoever. To me and like-minded gamers and enthusiasts that would instantly qualify the product as being a worthless piece of feces no matter how bright and shiny the wrapper is. Do you suppose their target market is children that rely on parents to spoil them with disposable "laptops" as gifts?

 

Enjoy your 860m whenever this thing gets released

Razer Blade/Gigabytesp34gv2/GS60 is getting 970m next week which is stronger than 880M in performance and cooler (Maxwell) in fact 980m (nearly 780 desktop in power) possible to be available too since p35gv2 a 20mm thin laptop that max out at 870m previously have it


860 was out half a year ago, in tech world thats like forever, hopefully they will switch from the announced 860 to 960 otherwise this thing is DOAX2 aka DOA CPU+DOA GPU

 

Seems like part of these comments fit equally well in this thread.

 

Exactly...

 

Games are only going to become more CPU heavy, and in particular more multi-threaded. I'd even understand if there was a ULV quad core, at least then it wouldn't be as bottlenecked. How many gaming desktops do you see that use i3 CPU's? How many gaming laptops even? Pretty much any laptop that has a reasonably powerful (mid-grade and up) CPU have a full voltage quad core CPU. My interest is still peaked though.

 

We still do not know if this AW 13 will have only ULV CPU's or if it will have base models with ULV CPU's as the starting option. Alienware systems have always been upgradeable and configurable. Also, we know very little of Broadwell. They may surprise us with something we did not expect. I'm pretty certain that the designers of the AW 13 did extensive testing with games and did not run into any bottlenecks. And if they did, I'm sure they were addressed to a certain extent.

The Senior VP of Design at Alienware said they were impressed with how quiet the AW 13 ran in games. I'm sure it can handle gaming fine for a 13" laptop, and I'm sure it will be upgradeable to Broadwell and Maxwell (900M Series) next year. They have to remain competitive in the market.

 

Unless there is a special version of it that Intel is staying hushed about, a ULV CPU is BGA so it cannot be upgraded. The Ultrabook standard for CPU, GPU, motherboard and the whole shooting match is a disposable one-shot wonder with BGA instead of socket-mounted processors. Replacement cost on motherboards are also typically retarded, because you're buying three major components. But, this is what a select group has been whining and moaning about wanting... waaah, waaah, that's too heavy... boo-hoo, that's too thick... so here we go with the solder-o-rama. Phase two will be when they all wake up and start to complain about these little critters being either grossly under-powered or overheating because there is not enough space left for awesomeness in the form factor they want. You have to choose your poison carefully, because there's no such thing as having a tiny, thin, light, impressively high performance gaming machine that runs cool. Then it will be the fault of all of the OEMs for trying to turn fairy tales into reality.

 

Games will be less CPU dependent in the future not more.

One of the major points of DX12 and Mantle is to reduce cpu overhead. The real maxwell gpu was also suppose to have a built-in arm processor to reduce the cpu overhead even further. This will probably not happen with maxwell, if it will it'll probably be only on the high end desktop cards aka GM200/210.

This will of course not magically solve the cpu bottleneck as some games that are heavily cpu dependent will still remain mostly cpu dependent. It will however help people play games with lower class cpus. I don't think we'll be seeing DX12 until late 2015 or early 2016 though.

 

Games always ask for more CPU over time. It never goes backwards. As long as there are developers pushing the boundaries, they and we alike will want more.
We'll be lucky to get some optimizations from DX12 and finally see more games use 4+ cores. The only thing slowing this progression down is crappy consoles and grossly under powered devices.

 

Exactly... developers will not produce and sell many games that run poorly on wimpy systems, so we all get the pleasure of having a gaming experience that is dumbed down to accommodate the lowest common denominators on the hardware front such as consoles and low-performance "efficient" computers. The fastest and easiest way to marginalize the importance of great performance is to lower the bar. If you set the bar low enough, even poorly performing products are better than average.

 

When I was referring to upgrade, I meant on the website, as in a "configurable upgrade." It's very unlikely that a "gaming ultrabook" will be easily upgradeable, in a sense that you can upgrade the hardware inside by simply swapping out a GPU or CPU. Would love to see that, but it seems unlikely.

 

okay, so AW 13 with maxwell gpu ( gtx 860? ) and broadwell cpu. I just hope that they bring cpu i5 with 4 cores/ 4 threads not 2cores/ 4 threads. I dont need i7 4cores. 8threads.

 

Broadwell is expected to come out in January. It will probably have Haswell until then. But yes, it will definitely have the Maxwell 860M.

 

really?. I saw that is dual fan so the temp it could be better than a single fan on w230ss, right?

 

Yeah, most likely. The design of the AW 13 was focused on cooling. The Maxwell 860M also runs very cool already. I'm pretty sure it will be an impressive 13" laptop in that regard.

 

I suspect that the Maxwell 860M will perform close to the same as 580M/675M minus the superior GPUGPU compute power of the older GPU. But, it should run much cooler even though it operates at close to twice the clock speed.

I just wish we new if the only CPU option is going to be the anemic i5 ULV. I really don't like the thought of an Alienware--even a baby alien like this one--with a 2014 version of an under-volted Core2 Duo.

 

It's not like them to only offer one CPU option. They've always offered upgrades.

I think the base will be a crappy i5, and you can upgrade to some sort of i7.

 

This seems to be logical.

i5 for the base model. i7 up-gradable. ULV of course, similar to the macbook air options.

 

There is a very good possibility since this isn't launching until November/December that they will have the new 900m series available too. I'm interested in this as an upgrade for my m11xR1. I don't game very much on it except in rare circumstances when traveling, but I do use it for my mobile DJ stuff.

 

The 9 series is only shaping up to be the 980/970 for maxwell 2 just now.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they altered the 860m a little bit and rebranded it as the 950m.

Thats what they would probably put in the AW 13. AW 14 too, and then upgrade to the 970m in the 14 will be 200 dollars.

 

980/970 is released now. 960 is rumored for october.

980M/970M is rumored for october as well.

Maybe in November we'll have a 960M in time for the AW13.

 

I wonder if they would do two variants of such a chip like now.

 

Yes.. it will be interesting to see how they compare on benchmarking.

 

Probably about like a GTX 580M/675M. They should overclock really well, but probably won't deliver excellent performance due to low bandwidth and lack of shader cores. High clock speeds don't automatically translate into great performance. Sort of like a 4 cylinder engine that revs to 20,000 RPM seems really sweet, but only produces 300 horsepower and almost no torque. That little guy is going to get sent home crying with a bloody nose by a big V8 that produces 800 horsepower and torque in bucketloads at a modest 6,000 RPM.

 

heh, nice analogy. :thumbsup:

 

And at what price difference compared to the estimated $1200.00 price point of the AW 13? Seems like an apples to oranges comparison.

 

Different size class too.

 

Indeed
The gigabyte can be bought for 1200 and it's smaller/lighter/stronger

 

Well, you can't argue with spec fiends - it's a never ending cycle of the latest laptop to on paper show specs and no other concerns

Personally, I wouldn't touch any of those due to the obvious thermal impact on component lifetimes and support options.

 

I have read articles that the 13 will offer only dual-core processors. That got me thinking if a processor like the i7-4578U is an option. Or possibly an i7-4610m. Both are pretty good options for low-end users.
I have doubts about there being a quad-core in the 13 soon, but I wonder if the processors I listed would be satisfactory for a 13" gaming laptop. Understandable that it won't reach the heights of the great desktop-replacements, but as a portable system, it sounds appealing.

 

The biggest contention is that some games are starting to expect four cores, so there is a lot of concern over the use of ULV processors in a 13. I still think that even a dual core today will still handle most things well enough, but for the utterly performance minded it isn't enough it seems.

 

Those low-end i7 options would be better than a wimpy dual core, but the the trouble is any BGA-mounted processors are a lifelong commitment... Like them or not, you're pretty much stuck with whatever it has for CPU and GPU until you buy another system as a replacement.

 

If the chip is fairly high end in the series it makes little difference unless you go through multiple CPUs usually to cherry pick. You can never move to the next generation (except 2->3 i7 which had a specific reason) so even to enthusiasts it may make little difference depending on the chip chosen.

 

Folks, please keep in mind the 13 is supposed to be a more efficient balance between gaming and portability. The 14 is a gaming beast, but a wimp for portability. As Dell has stated, think of the 13 as a blend of the 11 and 14. Cost and config options are also supposed to be more flexible, but we shall see on that one.

The Lenonovo Y40 is actually already an Alienware 13 wannabe, but the display is awful like the other Y series. Still do not know why the MUCH better Yoga displays do not get placed in the Y models. You would think the higher volume and less inventory of lesser display components would help their cost.

Added: I agree Dell should keep the 14 active as well, but seems a 15 is a more applicable device for portfolio placement- from a business perspective.

 

You mean the purposes of the m11x and 14s? I think we agree on that, but I guess there's a different out look to view.
I understand what Mr. Fox and Meaker are saying, that while the processor is great, it won't stand tall enough down the line by itself (same for GPU), but on a business perspective, the 13 is a genius machine. Portable Alienware will just be grabbed by the bunches of regular consumers. The laptop enthusiasts won't go for it, but that isn't the market of the 13 (and technically 14). With the added bonus that people don't even know that you can upgrade the Alienwares (been constantly answering this question in the past at my other forum) and the arrival of the 900m series + Broadwell (ehh... sort of on that one), it's going to be a hit in the holiday season. Sadly because of the brand.
Still, to analyze it from a power-hungry viewpoint is necessary since that is what Alienware should do: make powerful computers on any class. But more of the specs and details need to release as all of this is just educated speculation.
However, there has been some debate that if the 13 were to arrive, a thin-and-light 15 (the most craved for idea) would arrive as well later on to appease both the portable and desktop-replacement market. Speaking of both of these, I do have a question. What would be the heat dissipation difference between a soldered GPU and MXM GPU (same can be said for BGA vs. LGA CPU)? I would assume that the LGA/MXM components would be about thickness or slightly under of the motherboard, but I am curious as to how upgrade-ability would exist in these thin laptops.

 

Undoubtedly we will either see a return of a 15" (or continued 14") in a case design more similar to the AW 13 in time; perhaps not this refresh but I suspect it is around the corner. One simply cannot have lower spec'd thermal rated components AND bulkiness in this market without looking out of touch and losing sales. Everyone has their opinion, but I still think the logical series is a 13" aimed at the mobile gaming-productivity market, then a 15" that is at least partially upgrade-able, and then a 17" (or 18") with a dual-GPU option. Dell/AW traditionally maintains three lines, which is kind of odd when you think about it since other gaming laptop manufacturers sometimes have so many it's a bit difficult to choose from sometimes.

 

Ha, you guys are still thinking they'll make a 15" laptop and toss out the AW 18...

You know, there's a good chance that the AW 13 won't even be around for a long time. So, the whole idea of introducing a new laptop, throwing out a laptop, and redesigning the AW 17 to support dual GPU's is absurd. You are suggesting: 13", 15", 17" (dual GPU). That's a huge investment for a shot in the dark, and only one year after an entire lineup has been redesigned? Whoa, talk about boat loads of money... The AW 13 is a cheap solution to a portion of the market which happens to be targeted at portability more than anything else. Not only that, this system remains nearly impossible to upgrade, meaning it will always be weaker/less powerful than the AW 14 (after Maxwell gets tossed in).

If they were going to introduce a 15" laptop, we'd have heard about it by now. For the 13", 15", and 17" lineup to work, the AW 13 would have to be more successful than the AW 14. They've had a 14" laptop for more than 3 years now. I don't think it's going anywhere. Maybe next year or two years from now I can see them introducing another new laptop. But it's way too early for them to switch everything up.

 

I never thought that Alienware would toss out the 18. It, itself, is in a special class, so it'll stick around. Same goes for the single-GPU 17. Both are their mobile flagship laptops (because the 18 isn't offered everywhere, unlike the 17). The 14 and soon 13 serve for portability, and having them compete with each other is having the same m11xR3-m14xR1 situation.
But I brought up the thin 15 because the idea has been brought to Dell needlessly for the past two years, after the introduction of the m14xR1. Have a duo of light, yep capable, machines and a duo of powerhouses and boom, good options to choose from. The 14 will most likely be dropped like the m11x (funny because both with through 3 revisions) because it just isn't good business practices to keep two machines that have little screen size difference and creating a new machine and then dropping it doesn't look good (Dell's m15x and m17x went through two revisions/refreshes, so there wouldn't be an exception since the 14 is called the m14xR3 in certain locations in the world). The jump from a 14" to a 15.6" is very noticeable; the hop to a 14" to a 13.3" wouldn't that noticeable (I'm speaking about how wide and power capable the machines are). The dual core CPU isn't that much to be happy about, but is that what Alienware is concerned with?

 

No one said that was the plan in one refresh time but one as part of a roadmap in design going forward with the 13 the first indicator, successful or not. I'm not sure why you keep reading this idea that by Christmas we will see a complete revision of all the systems and the lineup, no one is saying that. As before, I said it would be a logical lineup, not that it would happen, but I do expect AW to maintain three distinct lines with possibly a 15 appearing at some point if the 13 is particularly successful, or they could maintain a more full-featured 14... fwiw the M15x got canceled in less time than the 14 has been around with the M11x taking it's place for three revisions... before being replaced by the M14x/AW 14. There is no history to suggest that size range is significantly fixed, we have seen a 15, then an 11, then a 14, and now a 13....

As I indicated a 15 or 14 would be the middle of any lineup. Honestly, read what I said and not what you think it says. Trying to characterize what people say as something different is not only a form of detraction, it just shows you are not really thinking about what is being said. What I have said all along and continue to say is that it's a pretty sure bet that we will start to see a thinning down in terms of the chassis designs over time. Other companies change designs at a rapid pace, I'm really not sure why you think Dell/AW is incapable of this as well if the market desires it. Why you think that the design of a laptop is some enormous expenditure in terms of product development costs is beyond me, manufacturers around the world designing and producing laptops with far less resources than Dell/AW do this on a routine basis. These are not cars

You seem rather enamored with this idea that Dell/AW spent fortunes on design... rubbish. 90+% is done in CAD by relatively small numbers of folks with known design principles surrounding heat, power, support considerations etc with routine processes to introduce it into production via mass-production; it's just not that complicated really with some gigantic investment of capital that has to be recouped by sticking with non-competitive designs for years on end. Even car manufacturers have been known to make radical redesigns inside a years time if the market required it. I'd like to see some real sales numbers to convince me the AW 14 is some major success in the market; undoubtedly it is selling reasonably... but I believe the AW 13 points in a direction of changing designs and that the AW 14 design is missing part of the market or there would be no serious reason to consider even introducing as it will almost certainly fall a few hundred less than the AW 14.

 

Right. I feel like one of the big shifts we have seen is that people would want to have a guarantee against the decreased performance and lifespan over time, in notebooks that run at high 80s and mid 90s like the Razer Blade 14. I am impressed that Alienware decided to prioritize cooling so much. That is much more important than the crazy thin profile. And the two fans is a big plus as well.




I don't think the AW13 is designed to be a primary computer product. I don't think it wants to be that. I see it as a companion that allows me to carry my existing steam library around in a very mobile package, unlike the AW14. So for me, it will hopefully be the perfect companion next to my stationary gaming rig, and with its improved thermal I hope it will last a lot longer than many current thin gaming notebooks currently do.

 

Companies do not redesign their entire product line and then launch new products the following year that match the previously redesigned lineup without plans to keep said lineup for multiple years (i.e. AW 13, Area-51). I don't care what you compare it to. That's a simple fact. Companies do not do that because it is not profitable, and businesses are profit-seeking entities. Alienware's annual revenue is a drop in the bucket compared to Dell's. Alienware acts on its own as a subsidiary to Dell. Dell can afford to redesign as many of their laptops as they want because Dell takes in over $60 billion annually. Alienware makes probably $250-$300 million annually. This means that Alienware has to meet X amount of sales to cover Y costs before moving on to the next generation or next "step" in the business model. The 2013 redesign will be around for at least two years, probably more. It's not going anywhere because it has to make this redesign profitable.

The plans for the Alienware 13 and Area-51 were made pre-2013 in collaboration with the new redesign of the lineup in anticipation of keeping this redesign around for years to come. They were not just thought up this year and put into the plans like magic. These things are calculated years in advance. I'm sure one day they will do what you say. But not today, not this year. Think 2016+.

 

I think the 13 has significant potential, provided it is priced to cover a good, better, best configuration options. I would be happy with a great quality 1080p display like on the newer Yoga 13. Love my 11x and still have it. My wife has taken it over as a normal non gaming laptop.

 

I agree with this. I believe that's exactly what they anticipate for the AW 13 - a cheap, portable, gaming powerhouse with up to 8 hours of battery life.

Also, those of you who suggested a docking station, I believe you may also be correct. There will probably be something like this to purchase in addition to the system itself.

The Alienware 13 with a 1080p screen and GTX 860M will be an amazing combination, in regards to gaming a portability. It will blow your M11x out of the water.

I would not recommend the higher resolution screen for gamers. You will sacrifice approximately 30% of the FPS to have a better screen, which makes it a pointless upgrade (in regards to gaming) because in order to have an 'adequate' gaming experience (smooth game-play) you will need to turn down the settings, sacrificing details for a higher FPS, which will look worse at 1440p/1600p than at 1080p on higher settings. The only thing I dislike about the Alienware 13 is its inability to be upgraded because everything will be soldered. If there's an R2 or something in 2015, you may be able to swap them, but that's a long shot.