AW 17 R3 (Late 2015) PCIe SSD Specs

I'm about to purchase one of the new AW 17 R3 (Skylake) with a 512GB PCIe SSD in it. However, I cannot find anywhere what kind of M.2 slot is in these computers. I've read and searched hundreds of pages and I'm unable to find a config, benchmark, or screenshot with one or all of the following:

1) Model number of any of the PCIe SSDs that come with these systems.
2) Type of M.2 slot in these systems (my hope is that they're PCIe v3.0 x4 though I can't confirm or deny this).
3) A benchmark of the SSD performance. If the sequential read speeds are higher than 2,000mb/sec, it's Gen3 x4 and a nice SSD as well.

Apologies if this has already been answered and thanks for any info.

 

My 17r3 has a,
256gb Samsung PM951 NVMe
Thats what HWINFO tells me, hope it helps.
Edit- They are PCIe v3.0 x4

 

Thank you so much for your reply. This actually is changing what I'm ordering. I'm going to get the 17 w/o the SSD in it and order the SM 512 from Newegg here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147426

Should net 2x the read speed and 3x the write speeds as compared to what AW is shipping with the units. I will post benchmarks after I have it installed if anyone is interested.

On a side note: I'm curious how AW is offering a 1TB option and for only $100 more than the 512GB option. My initial thought is that there are two 512GB versions of the PM951 in RAID0 but I feel like the cost for that upgrade would be way more than just $100. I don't see that Samsung has a 1TB offering right now in the PCIe M.2 realm:

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/flash-storage/client-ssd/

Anyway, thanks again!

 

This has me concerned also. I'm guessing that the 1TB option is actually two 512gb cards.

Dan, did HWInfo say anything about the PCIe data path version on the motherboard (2 or 3)?

 

You're aware that the SM951 runs hot and will throttle without active cooling, right?

LegitReviews discussed this during their review of the drive:

http://www.legitreviews.com/samsung-sm951-512gb-m-2-pcie-ssd-review_161689/3

Given this, I doubt that a laptop is the right application for this drive...

 

I was not aware. Definitely appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I'm curious about sustained work loads versus average and what kind of recovery time is necessary between spikes. For my personal needs, it's about 90/10 split for reads/writes once things have been installed and even at that, it'd be booting/resuming and opening applications/files which at those speeds are seconds of sustained reads followed, of course, by longer periods of (near) idle.

I guess for me, it's the spikes of extreme speed that I'm most interested in and less the sustained max throughput. Regardless, this is very good info and I know to look for this once everything is built and running. If nothing else, I verified the return policy of 30 days for a full refund before purchasing so at the very least, it'll be a fun experiment. You know, for science.

 

The problem you could see with the sm951 is that it could add to the heating of the laptop causing you GPU and CPU to also throttle earlier than they would.

 

Samung SM951 will draw bit over 6 watts which sounds bit high. Yea will surely get to hot under the laptop access door.
Two reasons the PM951 was used, cheaper and to allow the drive to operate at it own maximum specifications.
Although I am sure in the near future there will be better cooler and faster running PCIe drives that will be smoking fast that run fine in a enclosed notebook. Until the. The PM951 is probably it for now.
To bad that the write speeds are rather crap, I have a Toshiba 128GB SATA M.2 that is twice as fast than the 256GB PCIe M.2

 

So in researching M.2 PCIe 3.0 speeds I ran into a few questions that Alienware has not detailed in there promotional materials or the specifications document for the 15r2/17r3. I was wondering if anyone know the answers to the following. What type of M.2 ports are used? Are they both PCIe 3.0, Both PCIe 2.0 or is one SATA III? For the PCIe ports, are they keyed "M" or "B"? if "M" keyed, are they both 4 channel or are they 2 channel or one of each? When both ports are in use, do they both stay in PCIe (2 or 4 channel) mode or does one drop to SATA, assuming the second M.2 connector can ever run in PCIe mode?

 

I got the same one ordered, with the uhd screen

 

Looking at the new Samsung 950 Pro over at Amazon and Newegg. It looks like it is a week out according to amazon. I couldn't find any information about whether it was cooler than the sm951 as there aren't many reviews, but it looks like it runs on less power, has better power management, and even thermal throttling if necessary. Considering that it also has a 5 year warranty I can't image this being a problem in a 17r3. My only question now is whether I can get two to work in raid0. I noticed there is an intel raid manager in the 17r3 bios and there are two M.2 M 2280 slots. Anyone know if the 17r3 can raid the m.2 slots? Also anyone know if they both run pcie 3.0 4x? from what I understand M slotted m.2's are supposed to be 4 channel at the least but I'm pretty new m.2 hardware

 

I have been closely watching this. The m.2 M slot is supposed to mean 4 channel, but some vendors use it with a 2 chanel PCIe config. There are also reports that on other computers, there are 2 PCIe M.2 connectors M slotted, but though eithor one will run at 4 chanel PCIe, if you use both, the second one shifts down to SATA mode, or 550MB/s and not 3.94GB/s.

Please note, there are no ssd modules that can run at 3.94GB/s yet. But the 950 Pro is reported to got to 2.44GB/s.

Also, no game will benefit from 2.44GB/s yet. I am not sure they even would use all 550MB/s yet from m.2 SATA.

 

Well I just bit the bullet and pre-ordered two 512 950 pros. My hope is that I can run them in raid on my 17r3 with full bandwidth. If not then I hope to at least run one with full bandwidth and stick the other in my desktop. I suppose worse case scenario they will be too hot for the laptop, or both ports will be too slow and I'll put them both in my desktop with a mobo that can run them in raid.

 

Is the BIOS for SATA RAID only, as in can only see and configure SATA SSD drives and cannot see PCIe drives?

 

I don't have any PCIe drives installed so it's not an option in the bios. I don't even have 2 drives installed so there isn't anything to configure in the bios and nothing that shows what raid options are possible.

 

Very interesting. My SM951 that came with my AW 17 R3 is definitely throttling. About 150MB/s write

 

The problem with the SM951 would be experienced with the 950 pro, given the issues really are density and the shear speed in which it can move. the 950 pro will throttle just like the SM951.

The latest revision Alienware systems use M Keyed M2 slots. They can run either M2 SATA or PCIe Drives which isn't really an Alienware thing so much as it is apart of the M2 specification. I don't know whether they're using 2X or 4X slots exactly but I have to imagine it's likely they're 2x. There are only 16 PCIe Lanes with HM170, which would mean 8 for the GPU, 4 for the EGPU and 2 each for the PCIe SSD's. It's not really like it matters truthfully. Unless part of your normal activity is to bulk transfer 50GB worth of content , there's going to be no other perceivable difference between an SM951 and a regular SATA 850 evo frankly.

 

I don't know about you guys but never seen my SM951 break 60C.. It shouldn't throttle untill you reach 70C so as long as you can keep it under that you should be fine.. Best way to cool it is to hook up some thermal pad on top of it and connect that pad to some part of the case of the laptop.. That should help a bit...

I personally bought the SM951 as from what I've heard, the throttling is less then the 950 pro (strange enough, it's probably a question of firmware maturity where the SM951 beats the 950 pro).. SM951 is much cheaper too and also the 950 pro driver install.. Sure Magician doesn't work but not a biggie for me since CRAPID is useless..

 

For what it's worth, I'll summarize what I did here for those that are interested. As others have noted, the system doesn't play nicely all with the PCIe drives acting as boot volumes including the SM951. Others have gotten around this by leaving another drive in, installing windows on it and then migrating the install, leaving the EFI partition on the drive that can be seen and booted from and erasing the OS partition from the original. I ended up being stupid and not thinking of that solution and doing something a lot more complicated but it works rather well, so I'm not going to mess with it. I have two 500GB-ish SSDs in my system:

1) SM951 512GB: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SM951-512GB-AHCI-MZHPV512HDGL-00000/dp/B00VELDBJ6
2) EVO 850 500GB: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-850-EVO-3-5-Inch-MZ-N5E500BW/dp/B00TGIW1XG

I booted the Windows 10 installer on the EVO drive and used some sysprep/powershell voodoo similar to what's described in the following link to move users, program files, and program files (x86) to D: which is the SM951 during the OS install:

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1964-users-folder-move-location-windows-10-a.html

Following the install, I installed Magician and enabled all the magic on the on the EVO 850. Disk bench marks on the EVO are obviously massively skewed once the system is up and running because it's using a RAM cache at that point - so that can be ignored. However, the SM951, I get the full ~2100MB/sec reads and ~1500 MB/sec writes very consistently - I have to do the test several times in rapid succession before I see throttling; it DOES happen, however. BTW, hitting the 2100/1500 r/w speeds indicates a 4x PCIe M.2 slot, for what its worth.

Boot times aren't as fast as I'd like (go, EVO 850) but I rarely shut the thing down, so I guess that doesn't matter. Moving around the OS is wicked fast and my files/programs fly. Like I said at the start, it's definitely not the most elegant solution or easiest to configure but now that it's setup, it works ridiculously well and I'm ridiculously happy with the final result. Not broken; not gonna fix it. My next upgrade experience will be interesting though...

Here's to my ongoing $2500 and growing science experiment... *cheers*

 

Most users will not experience the issue we're talking about here. We're essentially talking about 13-14minuites of continuous 100% usage to reach its thermal capacity. Basically an almost non existent scenario unless you're moving tens of gigabytes worth of data, when it does happen though, it throttles, very hard into sub 5400rpm drive territory.

When I inspected my r3 I had , it actually had a copper plate under the m2 drive area, with a decent thermal pad sandwiched between the drive and that plate I suspect even a 951/950 would take quite a long time to reach its throttle point.

 

My 17R3 worked fine with the Samsung 950 Pro 512 in the first slot (full bandwidth). I think someone posted here that the second slot doesn't have as many PCIe lanes.

I had no problems booting from the 950. I just cloned the original PCIe stick over.

 

Did you leave the original in slot #1, put your new m.2 in slot #2 and clone it that way?

Or....did you put the original in slot #2, new m.2 in slot #1 then clone?

Which cloning software did you use?

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I simply inserted the 950 Pro SSD in the unoccupied M.2 slot and booted up normally. The cloning software I used was Macrium (free). Just cloned the SSD, then removed the original M.2, and it booted to the 950.

 

Gotcha. Thanks. So you've kept the new m.2 in Slot #2?

You should switch it to Slot #1 (4x speed), whereas Slot #2 is (2x speed.)

Run some speed tests of the new shiny beast. =)

 

i cant instal windows on sm951. Bios set to raid mode, drive is detected on it. But windows instalation doesnt see it :/ System booted from other drive same (dont se sm951) any help ?

 

Click on my signature where it says, "Samsung 950 Pro 512GB m.2." in maroon color. It'll link you to a thread that has the answers that you are looking for.

Hope that helps...

 

I concluded that cant instal windows only on sm951 in aw 17r3 right ? i need another hard drive with os?

 

I concluded that cant instal windows only on sm951 in aw 17r3 right ? i need another hard drive with os?

 

No, you can install windows on your SM951 if that is what you are wanting to do.
You don't need another hard drive unless you want one. It has nothing to do with installing windows on your sm951.

 

But when i instal windows on m2 ssd (bios set to ahci, legacy disable) after instalation computer dont boot (black screen + f1 restart etc...) and drive is not show in bios

 

Go into BIOS -> Boot menu, and change the Boot Option Properties to the following.

Boot Option #1: Set it to [Windows Boot Manger]
Boot Option #2: Disable
Boot Option #3: Disable

 

I have as like that, but windows dont boot (black screen). When i remove windows boot manager i cant add them again because bios dont see the drive

 

Have you tried only having the m.2 drive plugged in and nothing else?

Are you able to boot into Windows at all with any other drive? If so, boot into Windows with your m.2 drive in as well and you have to allocate the m.2 drive for you to be able to install Windows on it.

Have you read through the m.2 thread I linked you to?

 

yes i read that thread. Drive is allocated, windows see it normaly, hd tune also. I can instal windows on it normaly but it doesnt boot :/

 

That is very strange then. How many drives do you have plugged into your laptop? Also, if able, take a screen shot of your BIOS and post it here.

 

when iam instaling os just 1 ssd m2
ok i will record video how i am instaling windows

 

sry for non english system :/

iam tried with many windows 10 isos, official and unffocial (always not boot)

 

Just as an FYI, I recently did some work on my AWR3 17 laptop. I installed a single M.2 950 Pro 512GB SSD in it. After countless varying configurations and failed install attempts, I was able to get the install working one way:

1) Physically install a NON-PCIe (read: SATA) SSD or HDD.
- Any slot will do except the #1 M.2 slot: M.2 slot #2, the SATA port, or external. Anything that recognizes in Windows setup is fine.
- Trying to get a PCIe drive to detect during Windows' install never worked. I'd stop trying were I you.
2) Change your BIOS settings. The big ones are AHCI in the Advanced section and UEFI/secure boot in the Boot section. Here are some screenshots:


3) Boot the system up from a USB, external DVD, or whatever you have that has your Windows installer on it
- I used the download utility from Microsoft to get the retail ISO here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10/
- NOTE: Make sure to install the version of windows that came with your laptop so that it activates properly. No need to look up or type in keys and if prompted during setup, skip it. You'll be able to activate later.
4) Install Windows on the SATA drive.
5) Download and install Samsung's Data Migration Software on the laptop from here:
- http://www.samsung.com/semiconducto...software/Samsung_Data_Migration_Setup_v30.zip
6) Donwload and install Samsung's NVMe driver from on the laptop here:
- http://www.samsung.com/semiconducto.../software/Samsung_NVMExpress_Driver_rev11.zip
7) Shut the system down and physically install your 950Pro SSD into the FIRST M.2 slot.
8) Boot back up into Windows and use the Data Migration Tool to clone your SATA drive over to your PCIe drive.
9) Upon completion, shutdown the system, and physically remove your SATA drive.
- NOTE: When you do this, you will see NO drives in BIOS but as long as your first boot device is "Windows Boot Manager", your system will boot just fine.

10) Boot back into Windows on your PCIe SSD.

A couple notes:
1) Heat Issues
- I had heat issues with my SM951 and my 950 Pro just like others have stated. For my 950Pro I got some thermal strips from amazon (2 of them) and cut them to length to place above and below the drive. Since then, the drive seems to run at the desired performance all the time.
- Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051C372A

- NOTE: there is a slight amount of bending because there are no memory modules on the bottom side of the stick, so I had to put two layers of the strips to force the drive to make contact with the underlying copper metal plate. I just put as big a piece as I could along the top to give as much volume as possible for heat to go (and dissipate).

2) Garbled Identifier String
- I had a random issue that I don't think will affect everyone but it happened to me for some reason. That was when I had RAID selected in BIOS, the Identifier String (how windows and Samsung's Magician software identify the drives) was all garbled. As a result, windows would boot from it and everything appeared to be fine but I couldn't install the NVMe drivers or Magician as neither detected that I had a supported drive installed.
- I read online in a couple places that others had tried ACHI, so I did as well. Of course, that meant another reinstall - I was pretty good at it by that point anyway. It works just fine now and detects everywhere it should as the correct type of drive.



3) Stupid Graphics Amplifier
- For those of you that have the Graphics Amplifier, after a fresh install, for the love of all that is holy and sane, unplug ALL cables from all devices. I had more issues getting my GA going again because - and I have literally no idea why - I needed to reseat my HDMI cable in the back of my monitor.

That's all. I really like the configuration I have right now and it's never been more stable. Hope this helps.

 

Well said and nicely laid out. Aside to having to put in the sata drive to be able install Windows on the m.2, there were times where I had to allocate the m.2 first in order for the m.2 to show up as a drive during the windows installation process.

The only difference here is that I don't use the Samsung magician software and only the Samsung 950 driver itself (not magacian). My speeds are very good at 2.5/1.5....

Great stuff...

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