[Liquid Metal Showdown] Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut vs Cool Laboratory Liquid Ultra / Pro

1.) Yes and No. When I run benches I don't use the cooler as that would give it an unfair advantage over a laptop without one.
2.) I'm running wPrime v1.55, the only thing I do is change the cores to 8 and just run it.
3.) My ambient room temp is ~24C / 75F
4.) The 90C is Max Temp on stock paste when running the benchmark test.

I also use HWiNFO64, however, I use CPUID HWMonitor as it too has current, min, max and average values. You can also reset the values on CPUID HWMonitor as well, same as HWiNFO64. CPUID also has a faster polling rate, although you can change that in HWiNFO64, but still, I like the layout of CPUID. Just personal preference.

Your high temps are very likely due to not having enough paste. I've discovered this many times with my AW repastes. Between all my AW's and my cousins and friends who all have AW17R3 or 15R2's, I have done many many repastes and have found that you do need to be more generous with the amount of paste that you use on these laptops. It's a fact Proven time and again...even with liquid metal.

GELid Extreme should be nowhere near 80's. That's stock paste territory. GELid is a great paste and should at most be only 3-4C below CLLU for example in normal operating temps. Where LM (Liquid Metal) shines is in extreme temp cases like running 100% for long periods of time...that is where LM has the advantage. But with gaming and such, GELid should only be no more than 3-4C below LM temps...

I'd suggest opening it back up and applying more paste on there....don't worry, since it's a traditional paste, it won't hurt if you put too much...there are numerous funny youtube videos of people testing the theory and proving it wrong that too much paste is bad. One guy put a whole tube of paste and the temps were the same if not better than those who used a pea size amount on a desktop CPU....

Just to be clear, I'm not saying to use an unreasonable amount haha. Just make sure there is a generous layer on the CPU and GPU and don't be afraid to use too much. It's important to have a nice healthy even layer over the die's. Any excess will just be squished out onto the copper heat sink which is no big deal.

Our laptop heat sinks are terrible in the sense of it being even on the die. They are not like desktop heatsinks....this is why you have to use more paste than normal.

Hope this helps!

 

ok let me know when you get back hmm I'm beginning to think I didn't use enough. Did a small line of paste on CPU and a large grain of rice dot on GPU. Also let me know what your GPU temps are and if at stock clocks (I'm running at +135mhz core with +25mv, isn't stable with stock voltage).

 

I've updated my previous post

Honestly, when it comes to laptop CPU's and GPU's since it's just the die itself, along with the uneveness of the heatsinks surface, I spread my GELid Extreme very evenly over the die. Try that. Nevermind all the misconceptions of all the thermal paste methods. Those have been debunked a long time ago. All that bubble nonsense from spreading...just all rubbish...not true and I've proven that myself.

Tip: I use the plastic spreader that comes with GELid kit. Use only one side of the tool and work only in one direction...ie...put some paste in the middle of the die and work your way out in one direction from the center out, then just spread it evenly only using one side of the applicator tool moving from left to right. You can turn your mobo if need be as it'll help in not having to move your hand awkwardly to try and get the paste even. Just move in one direction to get that smooth even spread.

Also if you feel like you've put too much, which is okay, but what I normally do is create a little mountain toward the middle of the die so that when the heat sink goes over it, it'll spread the paste out from the center out.

For the CPU since it is rectangle, I'd spread the excess paste toward the middle to create a "lined," mountain in the middle making sure to leave some space at the ends so that the line doesn't go all the way to the edge of the CPU, to where it'll spread out evenly when the heat sink is applied. So leave a little room at the ends of the "lined mountain," so to speak, all the while making sure that you have a nice even coverage all over the die as well. There should be no mirror surface showing along with any thin spots of the paste.

For the GPU since it is a square, if you feel like you have excess paste, just create a regular mountain peak in the middle of the GPU die lol...

Now everything should look very smooth and the mountain that I'm mentioning doesn't mean that it should look very distinctively like one. It should have an ever so slight appearance of one if that. Just make sure the paste is smooth across the die and you'll be set.

 

Thank you very much for the info. I have found some 14 mK/w 0.5 thick. How much of it will I need? its about £10 for 100mm x 15mm.

Many thanks

 

If you can find the ones that's about 2x3 inches, that will be enough for the entire application. It's the more square looking one, not the 4x1 inch.

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I live in the UK and am struggling to get that stuff shipped to me. If i just get 2 of the 100mm x 15mm x 0.5mm. Would that be enough? Its the only size I can get.

Also.... are you able to upload your XTU profiles for overclocking? That would be pretty neat to try them out on mine once I have repasted.

Thank you

 

Thanks for this info!

Well I repasted and the Gelid looks to be covering both dies. To be clear I heated the Gelid with warm water and it was real easy to spread don't know if this adversely effected paste. I put on some new paste this time using Prolimatech PK-3 did not hear the paste up and applied generous amount. Temps seem to be down 3-5c on load and idle temps about the same 38c after its been through some stress test. I guess I will just hold off until I can get some LM there good enough for now.

Question do you have Witcher 3 to test you CPU and GPU temps? My fans will ramp up quite load regardless whether I overclock CPU. Max temp would be 80c occasionally and average temp around 67c while playing. During the peaks HWINFO64 says its utilizing 60% for entire cpu.

 

Yes if you get two of that size you'll have plenty to work.

I don't use XTU to overclock and I don't recommend using XTU at all for overclocking. It is highly recommended to use BIOS to overclock.

Here is a link to the Overclocking thread for the 6820HK. There are tons of info. on there...

Enjoy.

 

I don't have Witcher 3, but I do game a lot and my temps stay in the high 50's and low 60's after hours and hours of gaming. Then again, not all games are created equal so it's hard to say...GTA uses a lot of gas and it pushes the system pretty hard...and the temps stay in the low to mid 60's.

Great job and news on the repaste! Yea that should hold you over until some LM.

Getting a Max temp of 80C is still okay, but with LM you will achieve much lower temps than that. When the time comes....go for it...if you're big on wanting the lowest temps possible, LM is a must.

 

Hey iunlock. I have finally gotten round to doing the re-paste using Conductonaut. Very impressed and thank you for the guide!
I used the tape around the GPU and CPU for the transistors, which was lucky because when I squeezed the Conductonaut out, it kind of shot out across where the transistors would be so I managed to clean it up safely because the tape was protecting it all so that saved my bacon! Well done
With the standard paste an overclock of 4.0 ghz would sometimes take my temps up to around 85c, maybe a touch more ontimes and with 4.1, it would hit 92c. Now I have taken it to 4.3 just for testing and it didn't get anywhere near the temps it did with just 4.0 with standard paste.
So in all, i'm pleased! Thank you

 

Very nice! Welcome to the T1000 Club haha. Glad to hear the operation went smoothly. I just got done with a GC repaste on my buddies 17R3 as well and he's running at 4.3-4.5 stable! GOLDEN CHIP... I just watched him play BF4 without any issues. It's probably throttling if course somewhere, but still. Most 6820HK's I've seen so far can't hold those clocks for long, if at all. However, the golden nugget does exist.

I'm glad you've taped around your chips. As for the siringe shooting out of the LM, that is very common, have to be very careful. It's a known issue across the community of LM'ers...specifically the Grizzly Comductonaut siringe.

Take some screenshots and post some temps when you can.

Cheers!

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Is there any risk of "stickiness" with the Conductonaut? I've heard, just anecdotes though, that the CLU/CLP stuff is "sticky" so when you remove it, you have be pretty darn careful.

 

Negative ghost Rider. GC comes off like butter. Fairly easy to clean as off as well.

Tip: When you're cleaning the GC off, for any loose beads, use tape to gently lift off. Use light up and down taps. Almost like you're pat drying, but lightly. Try not to smear it. It's important not to break the bead or it'll smear and be a mess. Rubbing alcohol with a Q tip works well for any finishing touches for the cleaning process.

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Oh, fantastic. Great job with the write up, the pictures, and the benches.

And, thank you for the cleaning, too--bookmarked. This is going in my next rig!

 

Roger that! My pleasure...

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@iunlock i found extremely hard to remove liquid ultra from the copper ... i would like to know if conductonaut is hard too. because i am probably going to change vram thermal pads with 17w/mk as you ... another thing, i am going to put thermal pads on the other side of the motherboard, those vram chips that are alone without heatsink

 

The fujipoly ultra extreme 17.0 w/m-k comes in 0.5/1.0/1.5mm thickness

 

I've found that GC is easier to clean than CLLU on the copper plate.

Here's how I clean off the GC:

Use clear masking tape or any tape with a good adhesive and try and lift up the liquid metal. This method has always worked great for me, because it prevents the LM from smearing even more. It's important to not apply too much pressure though, but literally let the weight of the tape laying over the LM do it's job in letting the LM stick to it. Then clean the rest off with a Q Tip, Coffee Filter or anything you wish to use. They key here is to remove
as much LM as possible without smearing to make it easier to clean...

LM will stain the copper heat sink for sure, however, what I do is use the scrubber pads that came with my CLLU kit (that gray sponge looking thing) to polish off as much stain as possible. If you see in one of the pictures on the thread, you'll see that the grey scrub thing does a pretty good job in getting the copper nice and clean.



I also use rubbing alcohol (70% or higher) to do the initial cleaning, then I use Arctic Silver Cleaning solution (Bottle #1) and let it soak for a while, next I use (Bottle #2) to polish it off.

You can also use the grey scubber for the thermal pad locations to get the old gunk off...it works well...



Hope this helps...

Cheers!

 

Correct. I believe the stock pads are 0.5mm, therefore, I've always used 0.5mm Fujiploy 17.0mk/w pads.

The higher the thermal conductivity, the more dense the pads are, so going anything beyond 1.0mm may be a little too thick and hard against the heat sink when it is screwed on.

To play it safe...I'd recommend to go with the 0.5mm pads.

If one is getting the Fujiploy brand, buy the 0.5mm in size 60x50 as it is more than enough for the entire application.

Below is a regular index card that I actually cut to make it smaller and sketched the size of the stock thermal pads. I then cut them out and use a sharp permanent marker to trace over the Fujiploys to make the cutting easier with the exacto knife / razer blade.



Below are the stock thermal pads laid over the Fujiploy 60x50x0.5mm size pads.

* #8 is the eight pad that I drew in...it was actually missing from my heat sink! How about that for Dellianware quality control? ROFL...just unbelievable. Another reason EVERYONE should repaste and re-thermal pad.


Note: OP updated with thermal pad pic above.

 

Do you have any pics with the new pads installed? It'd be very helpful to see how you layed them out, which location you used 2x 0.5mm in etc.. I'm re-pasting and installing the new pads next week.

 

The new pads just replaced the old ones in the exact locations. When cutting out the new pads, I was lenient towards making them a tiny big bigger to ensure plenty of coverage.

I have some pics, but not sure that they'd help much.

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No worries, I just wanted to see exactly where the application was 0.5mm and where it was double that.. These pads are very hard, it took me 3 hours to do everything properly on my AW18 a couple of years ago. Worth the effort though.

 

Definitely worth it. All the pads are single layer for the 17R3/15R2. Here are some pics...

Remember to remove the plastic I usually remove them right before I put the heat sink back on to keep it from getting dirty etc...just my OCD.




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Have you tried repasting xps 15 9550 with thermal grizzly conductonaut? My 960m reaches 90 degrees celsius during gaming. Please help me.

 

Yes, just make sure to uses electrical tape to carefully tape around it. Also, make sure to apply enough liquid metal (LM) on there to where you have a small yet shallow puddle of LM. The electrical tape is your insurance policy.

 

Where do i put the electrical tape? 960m? Can you show pictures?

 

Please refer to the original post. There are a ton of pictures. Just carefully tape around the CPU and GPU die. The pic below is for reference, but it's the same concept...



Is this your first time repasting? If so, I do not recommend that you use liquid metal.

Instead, by Grizzly Kyronaut and/or Gelid Extreme, which are both traditional paste.

 

Ive tried repasting using artic silver 5 but i am not happy with it. My 960m s sill reaching 90° C. Ive read about thermal grizzly but i want to make my 960m cooler so i can play my games not worrying about my cards health. Do i cover the whole 960m with the tape or just the metal things?

 

OK... do not use liquid metal.

1. Buy Grizzly Kyronaut or Gelid Exteme.
2. Read the OP and buy the recommended 3M electrical tape.

3. Tape around the die, which is the mirror rectangle (cpu) on and square (gpu). Tape "around," it, not on it.

4. Apply the thermal paste onto the die and carefully spread it to cover the die's surface area. The thickness of the paste on the die should be about the size/thickness of a quarter, if that makes sense...spread it evenly making sure there are no air bubbles. (Note: With traditional non conductive paste, too much won't hurt, but having too little will. It's okay to be generous with laptops...)

5. Once you've finished applying the paste, carefully lay the heat sink back on. Make sure to treat it like you have one shot with it when lining it up. Once the heat sink is set in place, you will want to avoid lifting it back up to make adjustments...this is where most people mess up resulting in rubbish Temps then they blame the paste.)

6. Tighten the screws back in, in order, and violla ....

::iunlock::

 

Thanks a lot. I think ill stick w

Thanks a lot. Ill just try the kryonaut not the liquid metal because i am not sure if the heatsink is aluminum.

 

.

 

Cinebench R15 - 1001 cb with a baby girl overclock @4.5GH
Did not exceed 48 degrees by using Liquid Ultra


A better score with @4.8Ghz

 

you live in norway where the temps are minus, and even colder when you step outside

cheater!

 

LIQUID METAL IS

 

Indeed it is. Here for some feedback on my part, on my AW15R2 6820HK temps dropped by about 21C. I am using Conductonaut though, with Liquid Ultra my results, while good, due to the less than optimum aplication meaning I should've put moar I had Core0 some 11-15C higher on average than the others. So, strong advise to put a bit more than what would be usual/norm for a desktop CPU I guess. Running same overclocks as before though, 4.3GHz because I use AGA as well and that alone drop temps by about 20C from the get go. I haven't won the silicon lotery with this chip it seems, but besides the chip there are other limitations I believe with the mobo like power delivery, VRMs getting really hot at high voltages and tripping throttling etc. I did change the pads too with Alphacool 11W. This mobo above 1.3V in the processor kinda craps itself, hence running strong benches with avx instructions like occt at 4.3GHz trigger some overheating in VRM and ocasional throttle. Gaming is fine though at these speeds, in fact they hover around 50-60C with either 0 fan or ocasionally 3200-3400 rpm speeds which makes them almost inaudible.

Another success story with Conductonaut is with my friend's desktop system and 6700K CPU. After delidding and putting LM between die and IHS and Kryonaut on top of IHS he got a whooping 25C difference in thermals at same speed and voltage. Amazing stuff...

 

Are these temps with Fan full speed during the benchmark or left at stock (auto) ?

 

Maxed fans(Fn+1). I don't bench with auto fan profile

 

Those are excellent temps and it's fair to say that for the given environment that it's real world I guess? That depends on if people in Norway sit outside at Starbucks in freezing temps on their laptops; if so that would be considered real world scenario. However, ambient temps should be categorized in their respected classes as the majority of the people around the World all bench within a small range of ambient temps...ie...normal living conditions.

Any laptop in freezing temps will shine in benches. It's a computers dream and even so for the user.

 

while having your balls frozen at the same time

 

What pads are you using?

 

Fujipoly 17.0w m/k

::iunlock::

 

Arent they too hard for low pressure heat sink? What sizes of the pads did you use? Thanks for the help!

 

Those worked great for me and the pads made good contract with the vrm's.

Check the pictures in the OP as there should be one there with my scribbles on it in red haha.

Update: Here you go...



::iunlock::

 

@iunlock - for some reason I don't think I ever saw the pictures you have on the first few pages - very nicely done!

Do you have any thoughts on cooling for the P650RS vs for the P775DM3? I take it the big difference is that you have a delided desktop CPU vs the BGA mobile version in the P650. Would this change your recommendation on paste?

I'm not sure if the GPU is also different.

 

you need to delid the 775dm3 to get decent temps

for the trade off, you get a much superior cpu with better overall cooling potential

 

I would still use Liquid Metal on the bare die (open die) on bga's. Just make sure to tape (electrical tape) around the die and you'll be golden.

1. Liquid Metal: CLLU or Grizzly Conductonaut
2. Grizzly Kyronaut or Gelid Extreme. (Traditional paste)

Those are the only pastes that I would use.

The GPU's are all the same; all open die. Just make sure to tape around these as well as seen on the OP.

Yes. Absolutely Yes. The full blown 6700K and GTX 1080 is a tall task for the P775DM3 and even for the P870DM2/3's to handle. In fact, they really can't handle it without going all out including Max Fan's. Undervolting helps a lot, but as you know that's half the story.

A repaste and a delid is mandatory (IMO and in most scenarios just a fact) to achieve decent temps for serious tasks. Truthfully, even with a repaste and delid, the temps will be undesirable without F1 Fan's on, which can be of an annoyance to some haha...but it is what it is...unless people think 90C's is reasonable haha...and we know who they are.

With DTR's and Gaming Laptops equipped with Pascal (more specifically 1080's) the following should be literally mandatory (IMO):

1. Delid with liquid metal. (For DTR's)
2. Repaste with Liquid Metal. (For all)
3. Replace thermal pads with Fujipoly 17.0w m/k's ...

If it were up to me, that'd be the law LOL....

 

Ah, okay, I was wondering for systems like the P650 with the BGA mobile CPU (and GPU or is that the same?) are there different paste considerations or would the results reported here generally hold for this different type of system?

Or, to put it differently, would you recommend a different type of paste for the CPU and GPU in a P640 than in a P775DM3?

 

It's the same. I would always recommend liquid metal to provide maximum thermal conductivity potential. One would have to take a lot more precaution with liquid metal, but it's a very doable task and worth the extra effort (taping around the chips etc...) to go liquid metal.

 

Wow, thanks for clearing that up! ( And ignore more previous post =D)

Yes, I understand now. You guys are at a very different operating point with your 1080's and desktop CPUs. Sounds like more work is required just to get reasonable performance there! =O

Do you think a liquid cooling solution will ever make it to these laptops or is the risk of leakage / damage just too high? It seems like it would make some kind of sense with the right coolant. I would think you could turn the whole outer shell of a laptop into a big heat sink with some kind of distributed liquid cooling (and you'd just have to wear oven mitts when you use the thing =P) Getting coolant to go around a hinge would be an interesting problem...

 

Asus has paved the way for this to be a reality.

http://rog.asus.com/articles/gallery/gallery-asus-rog-gx700-gaming-laptop-with-water-cooling/

As for the DTR's, yes it's unfortunately the nature of the beast. The bga laptops will now be the same with facing the same issues with Pascal. It's a furnace.