[Alienware 17R4 / 15R3] - Disassembly + Repaste Guide + Results

What you need to understand is that those temps you are quoting *ARE* acceptable for Kabylake laptops, if you look at the current MBPs they go all the way to 90C* before the fans even kick on and their redline is 100c* before the fans go full blast. When they come out if you still aren't comfortable using LM which I totally get then go ahead and have them use a high quality paste you supply like a Cryonaut. Just bear in mind that in 3 years time you will likely be right back where you started as the paste starts to dry up.

 

@Freitz: For now, stick with Kyronaut. LM can be risky and "if done correctly it will outlast the entire lifetime of PC" as @iunlock says.
Use kryonaut and see how the tech disassembles your laptop [ He/she might destroy it, so keep a close watch] apply kryonaut and you will a drastic drop in temps. In the mean time, research about LM thoroughly watch @iunlock or @Mr. Fox videos to know LM is applied. Then after a couple of months if you're still unhappy about temp hitting low 90s go LM for CPU and non LM paste for GPU.
One more thing is, your ambient temps if its above 35C, you will see temps hitting 90s under full load. According to manufacturer specs, your PC must be working under 35C ambient temp, otherwise its running out of spec.

 

Counter-argument. Make the tech apply Kryonaut (shouldn't be an issue) sell the PC in 3 years (which I assume OP would do anyway)

 

Ambient Temps is 20C.

Its not that I am not capable of doing a LM Repaste. I just shouldn't be seeing mid 90's on a laptop with a 20c ambient... Dell themselves said 93 and above requires a replacement.

Oh I will be all over this tech. I have plenty of kyronaut for him to use

 

No worries I always figured some people don't like taking expensive stuff apart either out of spite (been there done that) or replacement cost. As for Dell saying 93 being a replacement? I mean I guess but they're gonna be replacing a whooooooooole bunch of these if that's true because none of them sold in the south with ambient temps approaching 30C* are going to be under that value without the fans being full blast on a cooling pad unless it's been repasted with care.

 

If I keep this PC for more then a year I will be surprised. I usually turn around tech in about 6 months. My Desktop barely makes it a year before it gets a re haul of something.

 

See there ya go, problem solved.

 

Well, I think its your fan profile then. It responds late. Let the tech disassemble the lappie. Just keep couple of alcohol prep pads ready because the stock paste is difficult to remove sometimes. Use the rubber applicator and apply it yourself.

If the tech applies it, don't make it 3 years; you will sell it before reaching a year.

 

Even dell says over 93 C is unacceptable.

There is no way with this cooling unit that 95C should happen with 20C ambient.

I have a 13R3 which hardly goes over 76 C full load on the same spot on my desk. Which leads me to think its something wrong with the system.

 

Why not just have the tech put it on if I am standing right there. I just can't imagine the issue is only thermal paste. My Alienware 13r3 has the same thermal paste and does not have this issue.

 

Not trying to defend them for putting out a defective product but without knowing what the fan profiles are for each machine etc etc I can see a scenario where 95C is within spec and OK. I'm not saying its great or shouldn't be fixed but those numbers are within the range most Kaby laptops are putting out. Hell you'd have a heart attack if you saw how bad the Razers are lol.

Different HSF config, different GPU and if the 13r3 is Skylake that answers why it's cooler. Again not trying to defend them, just stating the reality of things. And yes it's the paste 100%

 

Bump, sorry.
I just need to know to order.

 

Sorry just saw your post.

1) I wouldn't if you saw the way it behaved you'd understand. Rather than looking at reviews for the paste go to youtube and look at folks playing with Gallium. Gallium/Indium alloy is what is used in Conductonaut and to call it truly "liquid" is misleading it's more semi-solid and weird. You'd have to watch it to understand but its more solid then the name would imply.
2) I personally think the PCH issues are overblown. I don't know what mine is at and I don't care it's on a cooling pad and my temps are so low that if it can't operate within that environment then I'd call it defective and ship it back. I haven't seen anything related to the freezing people talk about and the only time I saw anything like that it was driver related to GFE.
3) I wouldn't bother but that's up to you. The rear has a large cooling copper/steel plate and if you wanted to put a thick pad on them knock yourself out. It'll be expensive and probably not make any bit of difference.

 

Even if you have ample stock of Kryonaut, then let the tech use it. Beware you'll get only an empty tube afterwards. They will decorate it like a birthday cake.

 

Great thanks, that answers all my questions... but I do want to do something about the PCH.
I'd rather not leave it alone, since I've seen it get up to 83C, but it does get hotter. I understand that 83C is in spec, but I'd still like it colder.

 

@iunlock: I believe, its a 1.5mm Copper shim glued using heat gun and some thermal adhesive, correct?

 

Those temp (95c) ARE acceptable with an unlocked Kaby chips running wimpy 35/37x? Oh'well
@iunlock

 

Hey now don't shoot the messenger I agree with everyone that it's ******** I'm just saying that it is well within design even at 90C. Tmax is 100C* and Macbooks and other industrial devices run them at that temp all day long without issue.

https://ark.intel.com/products/97185/Intel-Core-i7-7700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/88967/Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

Totally understand, I just don't think given the room available I would be more worried about the heatsink dislodging over time and grounding than I am about it overheating. Lowering the CPU/GPU temps will reduce PCH temps by reducing ambient around it.

The only real concern with LM is making sure that it does not reach freezing temperatures for extended period because it will return to a full hard solid and expand possibly damaging the HSF, chips or both.

 

What yoo saying is the exactly same as Dell's tech. All know i7 is designed for up to 100C. And within 35C as the ambient max.
He could run Dell's advertised 4.4GHz if the chips can handle it and use his machine fully loaded within 34/35C max ambient temp for laptops. 24/7/365. I'm sure this will go to hell. And please use what needed voltage for the maxed clocks.

 

I agree no way those are acceptable. Why would they be fixing it if it was acceptable.

 

High 80s low 90s is par for the course on Kabylake unfortunately even desktop folks are getting similar results because Intel moved away from uses soldered IHS are seeing similar temps. It's just a hot running processor and shoving it into a laptop with poor thermal paste isn't helping

 

So the tech after he takes everything apart is going to let me apply the thermal paste? I doubt that. I want to rule out the issue of heatsink, mobo, and fans. A repaste isn't difficult if I have to do it myself but I don't think allowing him to use better paste and put everything back together gives me a fair comparison to making sure everything is right. Ill make sure he doesn't put this all over the place but I think he can use their own paste so that I have a baseline for testing.


Honestly this is pissing me off this is my second system (replaced my first 17 R4 on day one for another issue most likely heatsink contact on a part of the gpu) This system should have worked from them but I think their heatsink just messed up and hopefully the replacement part is better. I can't see how they continue to not fix the issue at the factory.

 

First point, Dell does not have nor do they use paste, it is a thermal pad as I mentioned before. It is pre applied to the heatsink and all he is going to do is clean the die and slap the new unit on UNLESS you tell him otherwise. Second they aren't going to fix it at the factory because its cheaper to do this than it is to try and take the extra care and time to make the temps what they should be at. If you wanted that buy Apple

 

Yes He will agree. I repasted my system several time after the tech applied the paste.

 

I have a 7700k That does not even get close to those temps with a basic Noctua cooler on it nothing special. I disagree that kabyllake runs that hot. I didn't even bin this chip. Hell my Xeon E2687v3 under full load doesn't even touch 80

 

System still at 80 degree under load with a 1" gap after 20 minutes of overwatch... Still doesnt add up seems to high even for the gap. Ambient 20C

 

If I got those results with Kaby or even older Skylake desktop cpu's in laptop or desktops, I wouldn't accept it. I'm sure you will find SIMILAR ok results from laptops with socket i7 in the proper forum threads. Some accept everything from Intel's and ODM/OEM's tech team!! But not all of us.

From what I have heard, Dell use paste instead of stamps on the Alienware Cpu TRIPOD mess. Long time since they changed. Maybe ask @iunlock

 

You have a good point there... what would be bad about just having a thermal pad on it? Not making contact with anything?

 

As soon as I remove the 1" gap temps jump up to mid / high 90's in under 5 minutes... Seems like fan and heatsink isn't performing the way it should. You really think this is performing as expected?

 

You're welcome not to accept it and I agree with you but that is why quite a few people moved to Ryzen and to Skylake-E because Kabylake is a garbage processor. I specifically bought a Skylake 13r3 because I wanted a cooler lower power laptop and was OK with losing 300mhz. The problem is one of expectations, if you want a laptop to work perfectly, with the kind of temps you and I want it is going to be very VERY expensive because of the labor involved with doing so. That's why Apple can charge what it does and Apple for the most part delivers it. However to do that it requires it to be sold for close to $3,000; by comparison the 13r3 I bought from the outlet was $1100. The first one I got was DOA, the second overheated like his did and it took me 4 hours dealing with Bangalore to get a return label for the first unit. Did I complain? No, I understood I was buying a half-assed piece of **** but I knew what I was in for. Am I happy now? Hell yes and it was $2k cheaper than the Mac I planned on buying.

HOWEVER it was a nightmare to get to that point and for a lot of people out there, it's easier to just spend the extra money.

Thermal pads have terrible thermal conductivity overall and because its "gummy" if the heatsink isn't flat or doesn't have enough pressure it causes issues with contact on the die. Which ironically enough is exactly what people's issues are.

 

I doubt if I buy better pads the Dell Tech will replace them. I am just hoping he puts the machine back together correctly lol.

 

You'd be surprised honestly, they're decent folks and I doubt that they would have any objections. They've got metrics to meet and repeat repairs I'm sure are something they want to avoid. Why do I say repeat? Because if you let them install the new HSF and use the pads that are on it I can 100% guarantee you it will be the same or worse. Look at others on the forum and you'll find I am correct, you are not the first to have this happen.

 

Buy quality thermal paste and pads in proper size. I'm sure they will use it. If you talk nice with them, they will also let you attach the TRIPOD Mess.

 

Would a better hopefully fixed heat sink fix the problem at least to usable temps. I am worried if putting new thermal paste and pads I am essentially covering up the underlining problem vs fixing the problem.

They will put the proper pads in the proper places? I mean do they even know what they are doing a Pad and Repaste is something I wouldn't mind doing myself to make sure its right. I was trying to fix the original issue to usable temps before crossing that bridge. As I said above I think doing all that without figuring out the underlining cause is only masking the issue not fixing the issue.

 

Use the pictures from the forum. If you don't do it yourself, make sure they follow the guidelines-pict. But the TRIPOD is a very flawed design. A few get ok results after a fix.

 

I would be quite surprised if the tech had ANY kind of thermal pads with him; what we're trying to say is that you wont get the kind of "usable" temps you're asking for unless you repaste which is the underlying issue.

What I think you're mistaking is not how high they are versus the split in temps. The split needs to be fixed the overall temps cannot without a repaste. Some folks were getting core temp splits over 15c*. Ie one core at 85 another at 100.

 

There seems to be many people on the forums that have acceptable temps with the 17r4 7820hk and 1080gtx out of the box and only improved on those temps after a pad and repaste... Seems strange that mine would be so high given the Ambients that there is probably another factor at play here. Airflow seems good and like I said when elevated thermals are fine. Maybe the Heatsink contact is poor or is performing poorly due to fan issue...

 

The thing is I don't have splits.... My cores are within 3 degrees of one another most of the time. If it was splits that would mean more likely to be heatsink? My cores except for spikes all around the same. Their Max are also around the same if max on one is 95 the other is either at high at 97 or as low as 93 mostly they are 94 94 95 93

 

I guess I am not explaining it well so I'll try breaking it down.

The AW heatsink design excluding the tripod mount is quite good, the issue is that the thermal pad is a very stiff gummy material that partially melts as it heats up. Normally this wouldn't be an issue because most heatsinks use a bolt through design that is bored out from a copper plate. Using a single plate means you can crank up the pressure significantly without warping the heatsink. That pressure is required to displace the thermal pad as it melts ensuring equal contact.

The issue is that the HSF used in this case unlike the previous verion is NOT bored from a single piece of metal. The "arms" that the bolts pass thorugh are spot welded on top of the unit. This causes the arms to bend from the counter pressure that the thermal pad applies since it is a solid piece when cold. As it melts that pressure shifts unevenly because there isn't enough pressure on the die and you cant get enough pressure because the arms bend. So the ONLY solution is to use a material that is softer than a thermal pad and has a higher c/w rating.

Correct! Most likely there IS no physical issue with your unit other than it isn't cool enough for your liking, again totally get that, I wouldn't be either! But Dell isn't going to fix that unless you change the pad out for better quality paste because Kabylake is a hot running chip.

 

So looking at the begginning of this thread @iunlock Thermals are spread out a lot 83 C on core 3 and 97 C on core 0 while playing overwatch.

The difference with mine is all of my cores are at 95C... vs 1 or 2 of them getting there. This image is stock out of the box temps for @iunlock.

 

So you think fixing with pads and repaste will solve my issue 100% Thermals are not to anyone's liking. Im withing 3Degrees C to TJMAX.... after gaming for 30 minutes.... That is not acceptable. So this motherboards swap out and heatsink fan replacement is practically worthless?? Should I cancel and do this first?

I don't think I can get the pads here before he comes on Friday. Plus who is to say he will actually put them in the right spot.

 

Absolutely and yes it will most likely be worthless; HOWEVER I understand why you would want to. Personally I would cancel it; take it apart and repaste but I would call and complain and use the bribe money they give you at the returns department to pay for your supplies. Or if you'd prefer to buy something else and outright return it I totally get that as well.

 

According to Iunlock Guide.

I need 3x of each. Unfortunately doubtful it will make it here by Friday. I can easily do this on my own but I still question that this is the only issue. I have two 17R4 (first one had fps drop off)... The thermals though I could only game for 20 minutes never reached higher then 78 degrees. So I have two of these systems both had separate issues

 

QC on these is garbage which is why I sent the first one I had back (it was DOA) and bought a completely stripped down one and banked the hush money for the supplies. As for the Pads you can buy one big sheet and cut it up rather than multiple small ones. Here are the ones I ordered for my 13r3 (I had tons left over)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZSJQDYA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZSJQLME/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

So the only important thing is the thickness... Note I have 2x thicknesses I need to account for. .5 and 1.0 I can cut 100x15 strips?

 

Like this would work but ultra extreme vs extreme?? slightly more expensive... cost is not an issue I could care a less just want this machine to work.

 

Yea 60mm across 50mm down and .5/1 thick versus 15mm across and 100mm down. I cant speak for the 17" but in my case I had almost half the pad left when I did my 13r3


http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...5r3-disassembly-repaste-guide-results.797373/

Offical guide says 2x 1.0 and 1 x .5 of the 15x100. The pads I chose should be enough and they are higher C/W than the ones in the official thread but it will be cheaper to use the others rather than mine.

 

I imagine I would need this per @iunlocks image.

Not sure why no 1.5mm ones to get unless he is stacking but I will just buy the pad anyway.


Any difference between the ULTRA EXTREME XR-M vs Extreme X-e? 17.0 W/Mk should preform better no?? or it does not work like that? Note below I could only get the ultra Extreme XR-M quickly the others are a week away.

 

Yea he was lazy and stacked a 1mm and a .5mm and I can see why. The pads have the consistency of chewing gum. As for the other part yea you've got the right idea. Higher W/mk is better. It really shouldn't make too much of a difference.

Also note the .1mm pads he's referring to can be subbed with thermal paste; NOT LM but paste.

 

I can get all this here tomorrow with the paste. You suggesting I do this before I have the tech tear is apart friday or monday for a Mobo/Heatsink replacement?